Interviews, jobs & sponsorshipDo ya feel lucky, Punk? Well do ya? If so, here's the place to swap the hot gen on who's sponsoring or employing, their selection criteria, and where those oh so elusive first jobs can be spotted in the wild. Watch out for the tumbleweeds...
The Job Ref is: TUI836-1 and the position will feature in the Hot Job section on the front page of the website from Monday morning. The only way to apply is through the above site. CVs will not be accepted.
These are for summer 2013 placements with similar take home pay to the CTC scheme but also paying Flight Duty pay, Flexible Working opportunities (payment for working on days off) and including other Thomson benefits unlike CTC.
Sorry...the closing date is Friday 7th September. The following is from recent BALPA information to Thomson pilots:
"Cadets would be selected and trained under TOM auspices either in house or by another contracted TRTO to achieve their Type Rating and then operate with us to gain valuable experience operating large jets. They would join on an 8 month fixed term contract. The 8 month period reflects 6 months over the summer season and a period of training beforehand.
The Cadet will have his Type Rating cost taken by salary sacrifice so will leave him with an income of £1,295 a month.This is subject to tax at the marginal rate so they may pay very little tax after the personal allowances have been taken into account. But the biggest difference from the current practice is that these cadets will now also receive Duty Rig and FDA and receive Loss of Licence Insurance, Private Medical cover, be able to opt into a pension if they choose to, (the same as current pilots) and be subject to Schedule F including flexible working, duty rig and FDA. This should add around £800 a month to their salaries and they may also be able to earn flexi too when they commence Line Training. Overall this is cost neutral to the Company in comparison to the current CTC process but instead of the balance going into CTC’s pocket it goes directly into the Cadets’ pockets. They may earn over twice as much as they would have done under the CTC scheme and be well placed to join a career airline in Thomson Airways in the future as well."
This has come about as a result of recent negotiations between the Thomson BALPA Company Council and the Company following recruitment of cadets from CTC this summer. (Just coming up to their Line Checks on the 737 as this is written.) The idea being to direct more of the income to the cadet rather than to CTC.
With regard to only wanting type rated pilots that is incorrect. Successful applicants will do a type rating course upon joining, repaid by salary sacrifice over the period of the contract.
As regards the comment regarding "£1200 a month", I would say to read the post outlining the conditions negotiated by the Thomson BALPA Company Council. The practise of cadet recruitment CTC style is a matter over which current employees have no influence at all. Any issues re that should be addressed to the CAA who, as the regulator, approve such recruitment policies. At Thomson we have been embroiled in a whole raft of negotiations with the Company regarding pensions, salary structure and changes to current terms and conditions. The recruitment of CTC cadets has already happened at Thomson under the "usual" conditions where "£1200 a month" is the norm. The Company Council took the negotiations around other matters as an opportunity to influence the conditions under which cadet recruitment took place within Thomson. The result is that cadets will benefit from Flight Duty Pay, Loss of Licence cover, opportunities for paid "flexible working" on days off, full protection of our industrial agreements regarding rostering etc (Schedule F), all things that the Company were not considering. This will considerably increase the cadet's pay above £1200 by diverting the money away from CTC and into the cadets pocket instead, as well as providing much improved conditions in areas such as rostering etc.
I simply posted this information initially to bring the Thomson recruitment situation to people's attention as the window of opportunity is short. Good luck, and I hope to see some of you on the line.
I hope that they have good IT/ server infrastructure as the rush to get applications in during the very narrow application ‘window’ (more like an arrow slit) will make the recent Olympic tickets rush fiasco look insignificant and a server crash would not be helpful.
On the face of it the deal looks good and the initiative to direct money to the cadet rather than CTC/ placement company is to be applauded, there are a lot of operators who should be taking notice of this. Not sure if they prefer integrated or modular cadets or whether they don't care.
Many thanks Matey for posting the useful info, it’s obvious that you are speaking from a very informed position and I would trust your info above anything from most other contributors to this thread.
Good luck to all those that manage to get an application in (as long as you’re not luckier than me). I look forward to joining you in a very long and disorderly ‘cyber queue’ next week.
Hi there, I believe all the people who sadly left through redundancy are being contacted, but as you know it is to apply for the post rather than be re-employed automatically. You probably know better than me how many, but a significant number are now working elsewhere, mainly in the Middle East, and will probably not want to return unless for a full time contract. My information comes only from documents produced during negotiations with the Company (which I was not personally involved with), and an email sent to us all by our regional manager yesterday. I would assume that the answers you seek will be set out on Monday, and I can only offer my understanding until then, but
1. Yes The Company will fund the type rating and then recoup through salary sacrifice.
2 Yes as far as I know salary will be paid from joining, but obviously additional payments such as Flight Duty Allowances and Flexi Working opportunities would only kick in once line training has started. I stress that this is my understanding, and folk should check the online information when it is posted on the TUI website.
3 Don't know about accommodation costs, check the website. The Company will either complete the training themselves under our TRTO, in which case it will be done near Gatwick at Boeing Flight Training in Crawley, or they may delegate to another provider probably CTC in Southampton.
The current 10 CTC cadets started the type rating in May 2012 and are all in the process of completing their line checks now. Their contract finishes at the end of October. They have all been rostered for at least 60 sectors of line training before line check, and should accumulate around 400 + hours of NG time by October. What their situation is as regards these vacancies for summer 2013 I don't know. Presumably they will be able to apply, but I don't know. I also don't know the number that the Company is seeking now either before anyone asks as this will depend on the take up of Voluntary Redundancy, Career Break etc from the existing workforce. There are 15 Commands being generated as part of the recent negotiations, so that may also generate some space for new joiners.
Yes I got an e-mail yesterday. Well at least they e-mailed me as they said they would.
Yes I am now in the Middle East and doing ok. Earning nearly 3 times as much if you take my free house into consideration. Time to command is about 2-3 years for me here, so to return for a 50% contract would be a silly thing to do.
I hope that they employ all 10 CTC cadets before anyone else. If they don't, they have been shafted. At least allow them to go through the selection process before anyone else applying does.
It seems Thomson (and their current staff?) need some applauding?
It's refreshing to hear an airline actually value their cadets and take the power away form the big FTO's such as Oxford, CTC, FTE etc. Doesn't actually cost them anything either, so seems like a no brainer.
Still not perfect I know, but far better than what preceded it. Here's to more where this came from!
Wasn't the £1200 a month simply a return of the bond monies during training? If this is to be substituted by a "salary" then before people applaud too loudly they should consider that the former is not taxed, but the later would be. In such a case it may be "cost neutral" to the company, but wouldn't necessarily be so to the successful candidate.
There are other CTC partners that already pay for the type ratings as part of the placement. They also pay allowances, flight and duty pay etc. during the placement period. In addition some are also offering full time contracts on completion of the placement period.
Any additional placements have to be a good thing, but the exact terms should be read and understood when they are available, rather than speculating on too many "mights and maybe's" of something that isn't as yet published.
Some further information has come to light and it now appears that these positions will indeed be for type rated pilots on a permanent contract rather than cadet entry pilots. The contract basis will be on what is known as PPY50 (Permanent Part Year) where successful applicants will work full time over the summer for 6 months and then 2 weeks on 2 weeks off the remainder of the year. Total salary will be 81% of full time salary. The option to convert to a full time contract is available on the 6th anniversary of joining if they wish, or earlier if they wish subject to availability of a position. Terms and conditions are the same as for a full time pilot.
My sincere apologies to those who were led to believe this would be for cadet entry pilots which was my original understanding. When/if cadets are recruited the terms will be as stated in previous posts.
Don't despair! As part of the BALPA team that thrashed this out, the specific aim of the exercise was to take on our own Cadets and train them in house thus removing the big hitters in the TRTO world from their current pretty much exclusive position. We wanted to be able to take the best candidates from whatever background and because we wouldn't be paying agency fees, we could pay the cadet more and still be cost neutral to the company.
IMHO the only reason we are not taking on cadets this year is because we have a fairly big pool of known quantities in our sadly recently redundant colleagues and in the CTC guys currently with us, none of whom will be needing the full Type Rating that a cadet would need. We are also going through a huge refleeting programme which this winter will see 100+ of our pilots change type and bluntly, we don't have the training capacity for another 25-30 full ratings.
I firmly believe that we will be looking at cadets sooner rather than later BUT DONT QUOTE ME ON THAT
When we do, the deal is already sorted. They will join on an 8 month fixed contract and earn somewhere in excess of the £1200 PCM quoted because they will get FDA etc and yes, we did count the taxation factor in it. In that time we would expect them to get to somewhere beyond Final LIne Check standard.
At the end of the 8 months there will be no commitment either way. The cadet will have the 738 on their licence and some experience from a quality TRTO and can seek employment elsewhere owing nothing. The company MAY take them on the next year on the PPY50 deal on a PERMANENT contract as above but that will depend on availability and also whether they've been up to scratch in the cadet year.
TRTO means Type Rating Training Organisation and Cadet in this context means no type rating and frozen ATPL plus all that MCC stuff that is way after my time!
What happens after the six months? A 737 TR and how many hours? Less than 500? Would you be back to square one? Ryanair wouldn't be interested in you.
Although despite that, it's nice to see an airline show they care about their cadets...although that salary is and I'd rather work for Ryanair where I can get thousands of hours and not just 6 months flying.
All sounds like great news, or at least light at the end of the tunnel. Particularly for those embarked on the modular route. Perhaps the stranglehold CTC/OAA have had on the junior end of the industry is loosening...