Jobs for non-EU pilots
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I have Turkish friends, and I loved my 48 hours in Istanbul in 2005!
It is not really about prejudice either, of course I know there are young modern people, who probably want to adapt the "western lifestyle", which I can understand!
And as "aozc" pointed out, besides the football, there is not to much sunny stuff in the UK, unless you have a fortune to spend! Life is expensive, and the women are mostly tacky!
The issues with Turkey vs western europe, are not minor differences, they are major differences! People who come to west Europe, and adapt, is fine, just as I would adapt if I went to live in Dubai! However the majority will not adapt, from experience we know this!
EU already suffering from huge unemployment, it would be economical suicide to allow Turkey to join the EU within the next decade or two!
Even if they did join, as I doubt very much they will do, it will take another 5- 10 years before EASA regulations / standards would be adopted in Turkey, these things do not change overnight!
Regarding the religion issues, the truth is peoples personal views, do not favour Turkey on this issue either!
However from the previous negotiations I have read that it has been clear from the outset that there would be no freedom of movement of labour for Turkish citizens within the EU. If and when Turkey joins current restrictions would remain in place.
(From BBC website)
"However, it failed to ratify the customs union and its ports and airports remain closed to Cypriot traffic. The EU responded, in December 2006, by freezing accession talks in eight policy areas.
In December 2009 EU governments reaffirmed the freeze, saying it would "have a continuous effect on the overall progress in the negotiations".
"Turkey has not made progress towards normalisation of its relations with the Republic of Cyprus," they said, calling for progress "without further delay".
So far only 13 of the 33 areas of negotiation - called "chapters" - have been opened.
Turkey's EU negotiations have been overshadowed by concerns about freedom of speech and democracy in Turkey, treatment of religious minorities, women's and children's rights, civilian control of the military and the Cyprus tensions.
The European Commission has called on Turkey to strengthen democracy and human rights, underlining the need for deeper judicial reform."
There probably will be and should be a trade agreement in my opinion, but I doubt free movement of labour will come now for a long long time.
But believe me, you are not missing to much, I would rather go and see other continents, and embrace their cultures! You welcome to come and do winter ops at -30 deg Celsius if you wish
In the North of Europe!
It is not really about prejudice either, of course I know there are young modern people, who probably want to adapt the "western lifestyle", which I can understand!
And as "aozc" pointed out, besides the football, there is not to much sunny stuff in the UK, unless you have a fortune to spend! Life is expensive, and the women are mostly tacky!
The issues with Turkey vs western europe, are not minor differences, they are major differences! People who come to west Europe, and adapt, is fine, just as I would adapt if I went to live in Dubai! However the majority will not adapt, from experience we know this!
EU already suffering from huge unemployment, it would be economical suicide to allow Turkey to join the EU within the next decade or two!
Even if they did join, as I doubt very much they will do, it will take another 5- 10 years before EASA regulations / standards would be adopted in Turkey, these things do not change overnight!
Regarding the religion issues, the truth is peoples personal views, do not favour Turkey on this issue either!
However from the previous negotiations I have read that it has been clear from the outset that there would be no freedom of movement of labour for Turkish citizens within the EU. If and when Turkey joins current restrictions would remain in place.
(From BBC website)
"However, it failed to ratify the customs union and its ports and airports remain closed to Cypriot traffic. The EU responded, in December 2006, by freezing accession talks in eight policy areas.
In December 2009 EU governments reaffirmed the freeze, saying it would "have a continuous effect on the overall progress in the negotiations".
"Turkey has not made progress towards normalisation of its relations with the Republic of Cyprus," they said, calling for progress "without further delay".
So far only 13 of the 33 areas of negotiation - called "chapters" - have been opened.
Turkey's EU negotiations have been overshadowed by concerns about freedom of speech and democracy in Turkey, treatment of religious minorities, women's and children's rights, civilian control of the military and the Cyprus tensions.
The European Commission has called on Turkey to strengthen democracy and human rights, underlining the need for deeper judicial reform."
There probably will be and should be a trade agreement in my opinion, but I doubt free movement of labour will come now for a long long time.
But believe me, you are not missing to much, I would rather go and see other continents, and embrace their cultures! You welcome to come and do winter ops at -30 deg Celsius if you wish
In the North of Europe!
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Location: Istanbul
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@truckflyer
From a part of EU comission report about readmission plan of Turkey released 21st of June 2012
"
The Commission is expected to present a visa exemption action plan this autumn and the implementation of the action plan is likely to come a minimum two and a half years.
Diplomatic sources say actual visa-free travel for Turks visiting the EU could be possible within 4-6 years and it would require a majority of votes in the EU. ****
Turkey demands simultaneous implementation of visa-exemption and the readmission agreement. **
"
Also check this out
EUROPA - Press Releases - Statement by EU Commissioner Cecilia Malmström on the initialling of the EU-Turkey Readmission Agreement
So it doesn't look that bad of course we can find antithesis when we start to google it on press
Yes you are right this things are not just "1 nights solved" issues and probably you know it much better than me you have 18 more life experience then me i am just at the middle of 20s but anyway I am not planning it for tomorrow as well... it is just something in my mind that which needs at least 2.5 -3 year to happen .. Everything can change in that time of period (crisis, EU, my mind, etc.. )especially the aviation .. I believe you don't deny that as well ..
But it is good to hear that you are not against to me at all , and you don't have walls .. So thank you
@skies
Yes this maybe the best and shortest way to explain the situation of EU now, believe me i can understand it , I wish that deeply from my heart that people get the jobs as soon as possible especially where the life is so expensive
It is such a ashame that the stuation what is happening in the countries which are known the best developed ones in the world..
Please don't get me wrong I don't have any eyes on others jobs the place which people are unemployed with huge numbers.. I am sorry if I wrote something accidently that can understandable in that way.. I didnt mentioned anything like that.. I don't want to look like kind of a person like that bad..
Take care
From a part of EU comission report about readmission plan of Turkey released 21st of June 2012
"
The Commission is expected to present a visa exemption action plan this autumn and the implementation of the action plan is likely to come a minimum two and a half years.
Diplomatic sources say actual visa-free travel for Turks visiting the EU could be possible within 4-6 years and it would require a majority of votes in the EU. ****
Turkey demands simultaneous implementation of visa-exemption and the readmission agreement. **
"
Also check this out
EUROPA - Press Releases - Statement by EU Commissioner Cecilia Malmström on the initialling of the EU-Turkey Readmission Agreement
So it doesn't look that bad of course we can find antithesis when we start to google it on press
Yes you are right this things are not just "1 nights solved" issues and probably you know it much better than me you have 18 more life experience then me i am just at the middle of 20s but anyway I am not planning it for tomorrow as well... it is just something in my mind that which needs at least 2.5 -3 year to happen .. Everything can change in that time of period (crisis, EU, my mind, etc.. )especially the aviation .. I believe you don't deny that as well ..
But it is good to hear that you are not against to me at all , and you don't have walls .. So thank you
@skies
Yes this maybe the best and shortest way to explain the situation of EU now, believe me i can understand it , I wish that deeply from my heart that people get the jobs as soon as possible especially where the life is so expensive
It is such a ashame that the stuation what is happening in the countries which are known the best developed ones in the world..
Please don't get me wrong I don't have any eyes on others jobs the place which people are unemployed with huge numbers.. I am sorry if I wrote something accidently that can understandable in that way.. I didnt mentioned anything like that.. I don't want to look like kind of a person like that bad..
Take care
Last edited by Rft320; 21st Jun 2012 at 23:07.
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Visa - free does not mean that you have the right to work, that's two complete different things.
I can travel to the USA Visa-free, but I can not get work permit!
Business travel and tourism, maybe possible, but right to work, I can promise you not a chance for the next 20 years!
Even if Turkey did join EU, they would still need another step to become members of EASA, and their regulations, where they would approve your qualifications!
Believe me, the grass is not that green here, given the chance I would rather go and live in Asia, than live here!
I can travel to the USA Visa-free, but I can not get work permit!
Business travel and tourism, maybe possible, but right to work, I can promise you not a chance for the next 20 years!
Even if Turkey did join EU, they would still need another step to become members of EASA, and their regulations, where they would approve your qualifications!
Believe me, the grass is not that green here, given the chance I would rather go and live in Asia, than live here!
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Turkey is the full member of JAA so I don't think that it will be hard to be member of EASA as well after joining to EU ... Turkey is follower of EASA rules as I heard before but can not join because it stands for only EU countries..
Visa free doesn't mean work permit I didn't say anywhere it does .. I post it because to show it how was this issues before as you wrote and now that you can see the things are changing !!
So how thousands of nonEU people are working in EU with work permit... I don't think it is impossible... Or you are saying that for it is impossible for aviation...
I can not understand that really there are hundreds of EU pilots have right to live and work in Turkey .. Many of them are here with their all families for long years .. So what is that much wrong that nonEU can go and get a job in EU if he or she can find it in better environment than now in EU ...I am not against to that at all you all welcome to come and work here .... a captain just pm to me 2 days ago and I am looking something for him here if I can find a contact here...
We are all pilots , we face with same difficulties in the air , I hope it will be fair on the ground as well...
Visa free doesn't mean work permit I didn't say anywhere it does .. I post it because to show it how was this issues before as you wrote and now that you can see the things are changing !!
So how thousands of nonEU people are working in EU with work permit... I don't think it is impossible... Or you are saying that for it is impossible for aviation...
I can not understand that really there are hundreds of EU pilots have right to live and work in Turkey .. Many of them are here with their all families for long years .. So what is that much wrong that nonEU can go and get a job in EU if he or she can find it in better environment than now in EU ...I am not against to that at all you all welcome to come and work here .... a captain just pm to me 2 days ago and I am looking something for him here if I can find a contact here...
We are all pilots , we face with same difficulties in the air , I hope it will be fair on the ground as well...
Last edited by Rft320; 22nd Jun 2012 at 10:29.
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The work permit regulations are quite complicated, you can get a work permit if you have a profession that is a skill that is required!
However with the high number of unemployed pilots in the EU, it is not a skill that is required, therefore they will never give you a work permit for this.
The same applies for USA and Australia! This is one of the reasons change of Visa regulations for the USA recently, which has made it much more difficult to work as an instructor in the USA if you come from abroad.
Another thing, why would the airlines bother to spend time and money and making work permits in the EU, when there are loads of pilots that have the right to live and work in EU, which does not require such administration or extra costs!
Not sure about pilots going to Turkey, but I would guess it would be very experienced pilots, that they might need there, that is not sufficient from own country, that would at least be the EU requirement!
However in the EU there is no lack of this at the moment, contrary there are thousands working outside EU, waiting for the chance to get back home again!
It is not impossible to work in the EU, but than you will have to choose a different career!
If you visit UK home office page/consulate, regarding how to get work permit, you will see how complicated it is to get a work permit! Also UK are not member of Schengen, so even if you managed to get permit for UK, that would not give you the right to work in any EU countries!
UK have millions unemployed, there is no good reason for opening for free market from Turkey, as there would only be a flow of work force, that would undercut todays already very strained job market!
This is not about prejudice, it is about preserving the economy, at a standard that gives people of the nation a chance to survive.
However with the high number of unemployed pilots in the EU, it is not a skill that is required, therefore they will never give you a work permit for this.
The same applies for USA and Australia! This is one of the reasons change of Visa regulations for the USA recently, which has made it much more difficult to work as an instructor in the USA if you come from abroad.
Another thing, why would the airlines bother to spend time and money and making work permits in the EU, when there are loads of pilots that have the right to live and work in EU, which does not require such administration or extra costs!
Not sure about pilots going to Turkey, but I would guess it would be very experienced pilots, that they might need there, that is not sufficient from own country, that would at least be the EU requirement!
However in the EU there is no lack of this at the moment, contrary there are thousands working outside EU, waiting for the chance to get back home again!
It is not impossible to work in the EU, but than you will have to choose a different career!
If you visit UK home office page/consulate, regarding how to get work permit, you will see how complicated it is to get a work permit! Also UK are not member of Schengen, so even if you managed to get permit for UK, that would not give you the right to work in any EU countries!
UK have millions unemployed, there is no good reason for opening for free market from Turkey, as there would only be a flow of work force, that would undercut todays already very strained job market!
This is not about prejudice, it is about preserving the economy, at a standard that gives people of the nation a chance to survive.
