Interviews, jobs & sponsorshipDo ya feel lucky, Punk? Well do ya? If so, here's the place to swap the hot gen on who's sponsoring or employing, their selection criteria, and where those oh so elusive first jobs can be spotted in the wild. Watch out for the tumbleweeds...
I need cheering up for Christmas, so I would be interested to hear whether the jobs market for modular frozen ATPL graduates is as bad as it looks. I am not implying that it's all rosy for integrated folks, I just don't care about you!
So, if you got your first full-time flying job this year...
1) What is the job? 2) Did you have to fund any additional training up front to get it? 3) How did you apply for the job? 4) Did you have any contacts on the inside who helped your cause? 5) Did you have previous work experience/relevant skills which helped your cause? 6) How many hours total did you have? 7) Where did you train?
As much or as little detail in the answers as you like!
Merry Christmas, here's to a mass retirement of ageing pilots in 2012!
Well that is not showing a lot of Christmas spirit is it?
Here is a reply that really doesn't answer your question, but it does highlight the point.
In Summer 2010 (last year) I followed the progress of a group of 10 individuals who with little (PPL) or no experience at all, embarked on an integrated course of training at a well known UK provider. That same group is now coming to the end of their course and are still waiting to get their licences. Despite that, they are all starting work on Jet aircraft for airlines in the next month. All have less than 250 hours, and all will have their type ratings paid for. To answer your question as it applied in that case:
1) Airline First officer cadet (Jet type) 2) No. 3) The training organisation nominated the placement. 4) The training organisation did. 5) Nothing relevant. 6) 190-250 7) A well known UK integrated training provider.
As for retirements. Don't get too excited. People sometimes have perceptions of linear retirement paths leading to ficticious "bulges". In reality what happens is that natural attrition smooths out these "bulges" long before they could ever actually occur. Death, sickness, licence loss, redundancy, etc. all erode the numbers over time so that the projected "big wave" is usually an unnoticable ripple by the time it actually reaches shore.
Increases in retirement age, actually make this smoothing effect even more prevalent, as attrition tends to be higher in the older age groups. The state of the economy coupled with legislation changes have resulted in longer careers for many of those at the top of the tree, so don't hold your breath waiting.
For those making New year resolutions, it is all about the choices you make. Decide what you want. Plant the seeds of investment in the most fertile soil. Irrigate with "luck" and work hard, keeping your fingers crossed that natural disasters wont damage the harvest.
1) What is the job? 2) Did you have to fund any additional training up front to get it? 3) How did you apply for the job? 4) Did you have any contacts on the inside who helped your cause? 5) Did you have previous work experience/relevant skills which helped your cause? 6) How many hours total did you have? 7) Where did you train?
First of all, Merry Xmas! Please don't lose faith, there are plenty of jobs out there. Just don't expect to land an airline job tomorrow
1) I am currently flying Cessna Grand Caravans in Indonesia. It maybe single engine, however it is turbine and it is also run as a multi pilot operation (in my company anyway), which definitely looks good on your CV. Previous to this I have worked as an instructor, both part time and full time.
2) No loans etc. I just saved up for a long time. Patience is very important in this industry.
3) I found this job here on PPRuNe! Other useful websites include pilotjobsnetwork.com and coffeelovesmilk.com.
4) No contacts this time round, although I have no doubt it is helpful when it comes to knowing what to expect during your interview and training.
5) The instructing helped a great deal. It helped set me apart from the other candidates at the interview and will also help me to advance through the ranks at this company.
6) Just over 800 hours so far.
7) I trained for a JAA licence in Florida. To be honest though, I think it is better to train in the same country that issues your licence. It's not that FAA CFIs aren't good, it is just that they don't know the JAA syllabus. Further more, the RT/airspace is different.
So, in a nutshell, I'm not quite an airline pilot (yet), however I'm in no immediate rush. I'm 27 and I would like an adventure whilst I am still young enough. I actually turned down an airline interview to come here to Indonesia.
If you are looking to jump straight into airline work, don't worry, there are still plenty of jobs out there. Many friends I have met during flight training now work for airlines, some of whom didn't even need to pay for their TR. Jet2, DHL and a few others don't require payment, instead they will bond you for a certain amount of time to cover your training costs.
I am sure all newly qualified pilots feel the same mate and even experienced guys can sympathise with you, as most of us guys have been in the same situation, of trying to get your first job.
I work for Bmi, and it was great to see this summer (2011) the company taking some guys out of the hold pool to replace guys who went off the BA. A couple of these guys were guys with little or no experience, but had been working as cabin crew for a couple of years with Bmi.
It was great to see the guys who had been making the right contacts and sitting it out in the cabin only to be given the chance to move into the sharp end. The Airbus type rating and line training was taken care of by the company and the guys are now online and really enjoying the job.
As I am sure you are aware there are many ways into this job, and 9 times out of the 10 it takes a considerable amount of effort. Stay positive and keep plugging away.
Jet2, DHL and a few others don't require payment, instead they will bond you for a certain amount of time to cover your training costs
This is not strictly true. Jet2 only fund the TR for ex military guys and then bond them for about 3 years. The low houred ab-initio guys have to fund their own TR including accommodation.
So, an unscientific assumption so far that is based on a sample of 1202 viewers there is no one here who has got themselves a job this year following a modular course!
Alister, thanks for your reply - as much as I'd love to be out there with you in Indonesia (great aircraft/scenery) I just couldn't justify giving everything up here especially as the hours don't count in EASA land.
1) Flight instructor at an integrated school (non-UK) 2) FI Rating 3) Walked in in-person 4) No, right place at the right time 5) more or less, previous military experience teaching pilots and aircrew technical stuff, but I am sure the main reason why they hired me is because I'm a native English speaker 6) 300 more or less 7) FAA training followed by JAA conversion in different countries
Sorry, maybe not what you were looking for. I have a friend though who did modular training in Italy and got a Ryanair interview and Susi Air interview. I also know a UK FI who did modular and he got hired at Ryanair this year with around 800hrs.
I just couldn't justify giving everything up here especially as the hours don't count in EASA land.
Yes they do!
In my company, you can log the multi crew time under JAR/EASA, both SIC and PIC, as it is a multi crew operation conducted under an ICAO member state. Not to mention the fact the experience will put you ahead of the other airline applicants with 200 odd hours!
It just won't count towards the multi crew requirement for the issue of your ATPL, as the aircraft are classed as single crew and are below 5700kg MTOW. Unless you were planning on applying to an airline for a direct entry Captain position (ain't gonna happen I'm afraid), a full ATPL is a little bit pointless.
In my company, we get free accommodation and food, and the cost of living is next to nothing. Working over here is a great way to save up for a Type Rating. Although there are some exceptions, many airlines these days require you to pay for your own.
Thanks for clarifying Alister, I knew there was some issue with it, but didn't realise that SIC time logged on the Caravan could be counted towards your total time. I'd love to do it, but I wouldn't be able to cover my debts back here with the income.
but I wouldn't be able to cover my debts back here with the income.
That's a problem and it remains a problem if you were to get, say a FI job locally. The catch 22 is that a low paid starter job will never cover the debts but the experience will probably ease your progress into a better paid job sooner.
It has to be seen as part of the training process. Having some real world flying is often seen as an advantage in interviews.
hallo guys, Christmas is already passed, so I wish you a brilliant new year! as for me, this was my experience, it started in 2010 till now..
1) I am a Let410 FO , I fly for a company under contract with UN and ICRC in Africa. 2) I got a Let410 TR before starting the job hunt. 3) I went to Congo knocking at the doors, looking for my first employement (that was a local charter company where I ve flown for one year, after that, I got a better job with my present employer, always speaking directly with people on the "field") 4) zero , 5) no, at the time I left Europe ,I did not even speak French (that is more useful that English, in DRC) 6) I had about 400 tt 7) I got my training in 2 normal FTO in Italy and the TR in a TRTO in Czech. Rep.
In Summer 2010 (last year) I followed the progress of a group of 10 individuals who with little (PPL) or no experience at all, embarked on an integrated course of training at a well known UK provider. That same group is now coming to the end of their course and are still waiting to get their licences. Despite that, they are all starting work on Jet aircraft for airlines in the next month. All have less than 250 hours, and all will have their type ratings paid for.
1) Airline First officer cadet (Jet type) 2) No. 3) The training organisation nominated the placement. 4) The training organisation did. 5) Nothing relevant. 6) 190-250 7) A well known UK integrated training provider.
Are you speaking about KD (cadet)? I beleive every one knows what is a cadet scheme, you are hired before training, best situation. That's not like you have to find a job after training. I know many people who went through cadet scheme, I fly in Asia, but it didn't come to my mind to answer this post using their reality, it would make people looking for a job to get a bit angry for giving them fasle hope and explaining a condition that doesn't concern them ... In addition the question is MODULAR. Completely off topic if you ask me.
If you read the second line to the reply you will see that I said:
Quote:
Here is a reply that really doesn't answer your question, but it does highlight the point.
That point being, that it really is important to understand how to achieve the result that you want by the method you employ. I am no more concerned how "angry" it makes you feel, than the original poster "could care" less.
Clearly the jobs market is every bit as weak as you might expect it to be, and indeed it has been reported as being so for many years now. Aerial work type employment is out there (instructing, bush flying, etc.) but the competition is very intense as the lack of responses unscientifically bears out.
At airline recruitment level, the only real low hour openings are at cadet level, and by no means is that only restricted by pre-selection, however it is largely restricted to specific training programmes and methodology. It is a point that a lot of people clearly choose to ignore, nevertheless it is a counterpoint that deserves to made even if it is not invited to the party.
In summary, I did make it clear that the answer was a counterpoint to the question, and I didn't expect it to be a popular answer for that reason. The section concerning retirement attrition was also in direct response to the posters final comment. In point or counterpoint, the information is factual and might be useful to somebody reading the thread subject. If you don't like it, feel it is irrelevant, or wish it were something else, then simply ignore it. The trouble is of course, that it niggles for a reason.
Hardly an inspiring read for those embarking on Modular training.
Quote:
The trouble is of course, that it niggles for a reason.
It certainly does niggle, more so now than ever as far as I'm concerned.
As much as I hate to admit it I'm starting to come round to what Bealzebub preaches.
I've always been in favour of the modular route and have spent several years saving and planning my route. However now I've finally saved enough I can't help feeling that if I'm going to gamble CTC/Oxford may be a better place to put my hard earned cash.
