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Will I ever get a break?

Old 9th Jul 2011, 15:26
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finally.......

Hi,
i have got Ryanair interview in early 2008 but didnt success,since then logged 900hrs(+360hrs when did interview)working as FI but not a single call from airline or charter.
When i started people said once you have 700 to 800 hrs small operater intrested in you now i got 1200hrs but still no call,some time i receive email from airline or charter says you are not eligible,y?i have JAA fATPL,MCC,Class i Med,current on all rating finally thinking towards PF line training schem bcz its look like only way to seat there.

Best of luck to all,
Regards,
KFTW
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 17:06
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SpreadEagle, I like the fact that you want to help us, and for that I thank you and ask sorry for my previous stupid and infantil post.

But this is a hard period, the recession has hit also the other working sectors, so that aviation is not in a good period at the moment doesn't mean the other jobs are in a better situation.
I don't know in you country, but in mine there are a lots of graduate from uni that graduated with the highest mark possible and they work in a supermarket as caschier... one of them is a my friend who graduated in psychology with 110/110 with honours.

I will either follow my dreams or get a Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science Engineering (I like it a bit) or Business Administration and work only for money.
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 17:18
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Jerry Lee:

You will go to Belize straight after flight school to fly a Caravan.

Let me guess, Tropic Air. I worked as a skydive pilot in the US for a while flying a Caravan and thought I need to branch out and do something other than up and down from the same airfield. 1500hrs, 300PIC in a caravan. Not a chance with Tropic Air. Maybe things have changed since 2002 and now you can walk into Tropic air with 250 hours and no time on type.

Good luck.
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 18:00
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Actually, Tropic Air is running a program with a flight school in U.S. for building hours, and there are no flight requirements, as far as I know.
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 18:06
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And you have a place on this scheme? I am sure Tropic Air like every other company now is making money from these students going to this specific school. Have you ever called them or emailed them asking about employment opportunities? Hope you get in but if you are basing your plan on getting a job with Tropic Air and you are not on their scheme you are being very foolish. If you are, well done am sure it would be a great place to fly.
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 18:16
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spreadeagle,

don't waste your time, aviation will always attract naive pople like you and me.
we are all in the same sinking boat full of holes, you can not prevent people to realize their "wet" dream.

Aviation is like the EU lottery, you have 1/6'000'0000 chance to win the jackpot, still plenty of people playing.We are all a bunch of dreamers in this world, all a bunch of players(especially men).

the most important is to realize that you won't be happier because you have forked out all this money in this aviation scam.Many pilots complain about their job.

There was a show recently on TV, an italian lady(30 years old), 6 years at UNI, now cleaning the streets in Roma for minimu salary (1500 euro), and she is very happy to have a ****ty PAID job!

Take a break, go on holyday and have a life, f... aviation and come back in 2-3 years and have a good laugh at all these guys who have been scamed in T/R + 500h line training and still jobless... in 2 years ,P2F and schemes, whatever you call this scam , will be everywhere, again: who should the pay you, why???
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 18:23
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@sloppyjoe,
I think you work for cathay pacific, would you like to share about your flying experience over the years about how you finally got in cathay as deck crew.
Where all you worked and how was it.......I believe it will give little bit motivation to guys....
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 21:14
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hello all,

i'm a first time poster here and, like many, fall firmly into the wannabes category since i am still currently at the PPL stage. However, I've been following many threads on this forum for a while and thought it about I aired a couple of views...feel free to criticise as appropriate!

I agree with many of the views aired on this thread about the bleak outlook for the airline industry but it is ridiculous to believe that this will continue indefinitely into the future. Recessions, unfortunately because of our free market system, come and go. This one decimated many companies and adversely affected many more. However, it will end. And with it, increased investment, business and, by association, jobs.

Secondly, all professions are extremely competitive. I know lawyers who have shelled out a lot for the postgraduate training only to find themselves struggling to get that first job. We all love flying and who ever thought it would be easy to get that first job?

Lastly, we (as Brits) have to stop thinking within our own borders so much. The world does not start and end with Ryanair and Easyjet! Even though they are the most ubiquitous carriers in the UK we have the whole EU to think about and then that lingering behemoth ASIA which is touted to have VERY strong growth in its aviation industries between now and 2030.

Interesting article in the FT the other day backing up this last point: Aviation: At full throttle - FT.com

Anyway, my point is although it's bleak from a business point of view things will imrpove and I disagree with those who say 'it's over'

Best of luck to all job seekers,
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Old 9th Jul 2011, 23:14
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Good work Flyvirgin,

There are those on here that have given up and basically are trying to make themselves feel better by convincing others to do the same. My career is on track my 61 pilot friends on FB are all employed, they did not give up. They have had hard times and breaks here and there from flying but all are on course.

It is very hard to get into and I would not recommend people to train at the moment but if you have the quals under your belt then keep going. Take strength from the guys who fall by the wayside and spend allot of time dwelling on the negative. You will find there are many professions that are extremely hard to get a break in, we are not unique.

And open your mind people, being an airline pilot is not the only job that pays well in aviation and is definately not the most fun.

I can't be bothered to carry on with this thread anymore as I have to go flying. While I'm sitting on the floats of my caravan with my toes in the tropical water at some beautiful beach I can think of worse jobs, whilst waiting for the bikini clad passengers to arrive.

The experience is related to what you put in, remain as positive as you can at all times, don't get dragged down by the dead beats of pprune and other places. Negativity is a disease in this and many other industries, yes the T & C's could be better and yes the money could be allot better but its not. If its going to drag you down so far you can no longer enjoy the good parts then get out before you get a break.

All the best

Last edited by Wildpilot; 10th Jul 2011 at 01:57.
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 03:12
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Hi flyvirgin,

I'm in the same boat as you and I finished flight school in 2009, and I still haven't landed my first job.

I am going to offer you another option that most people don't talk about. Something different from just getting an instructors rating, especially if you can't afford one. It's what I am doing at the moment. Its not as fast as building time as an instructor or rewarding but it helps in a way that keeps your skills and knowledge fresh and not to rust up. Also it kind of helps you get a small foot in the door with a company with out you even knowing it.

I'm from the Caribbean and I found a small single crew operation that fly's BN2 Islanders for charters and a small schedule service around the close Islands. I approached the owner and asked if I could sit right seat to learn and gain some experience from them and even gain some hours if possible. I had a long meeting with the owner and he basically told me that's fine but he's not going to pay me and its at my own risk. Because if the flight is full coming back to base. I'm stuck where ever I am and I have to pay my own hotel for the night and try get home on the next days flights or find another operator to jumpseat back with. Also the other thing is, I can't log leg sectors with paxs on board but can log empty sectors as PIC/under supervision. So as you can appreciate, there isn't much empty sectors. I took all that home and had a good think about it all. In the end I said f#*k it. I'm going to give it a go, got nothing else to do, and of I went flying all over the Caribbean. With all that said, another privilege came my way not to long after when they realised how passionate and determine I was (and trust me, it wasn't easy having to sometimes find your own way home after being stuck somewhere). Over here in the Caribbean, the aviation authority says that its a requirement to fly 2 crew at night or in IFR conditions if the aircraft is not equip with a usable autopilot on board. With that said and only one aircraft fitted with an autopilot, I was given the opportunity to fly night flights and ifr flights as co-pilot and log those hours as SIC as long as I did my OPC on the aircraft, which I did. For these flights now I started to get paid for but it wasn't much and there isn't much night or ifr flights here.

Anyway, to cut a long story short. I've been with the company now nearly a year now and I've nearly build up 150 hours more. Not a lot but more than what I would have had just sitting at home on my ass. The other thing is now, the owner has spoken to his insurance people and they have come to an agreement to put me on the insurance once I reach a requirement of 500TT, 250ME and 50hrs on type. Which I'm almost close to (hopefully by the end of the year as season is slow now) which also means I can get hired fully soon.

I not sure if this is any help as I don't know how the industry is like near you, but no harm trying to find out and find something of the same operation near you and approach them the same way. Just another option to look at if possible and help you not to sit around and get your skills rusty. Its not as rewarding yet but still just as fun. This way you stay on top of things while you wait and who knows where it might lead.

Another thing that cTcPilot posted that I like, QUOTE 'You need a few years on old turboprops, that will put hairs on your chest or some single pilot IFR work' UN-QUOTE before u hit the big boys and just be patient. There is A LOT of us out there in the same boat and out there a lot longer than you, trust me. Just try and do something out the norm to get ahead and be willing to bend over backwards for it.

I hope this helps and has you thinking about other ways to get a head. Good luck buddy, we all need it.

P.s. What Coffin Corner said about getting your licence in the time of a recession. This is the best time because we will be ready and able for when the next hiring boom comes along.
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 07:56
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Good post Rupert!
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 08:38
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I firmly believe SpreadEagle to be right on the money here.
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 09:35
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I must be imagining my situation and many many other then.
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Old 10th Jul 2011, 14:33
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Prop Man,

good for you, but you know, all these jobs bring you nowhere at the end.
got 2000h BN2? not paid? and then where do you go? fly a B747 as a captain at 30'000$ or still be unemployed or making crap flying job qt 30-40-50 years old.

it s ok when you are 20-25, but after you will be pissed when later you are still unpayed despite the fact you have spent lot of money and time in this business.

have fun on your Bn2 and other cessna!
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Old 18th Jul 2011, 16:33
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Sadly the wannabe's section of prune is a place where pilots in training convince pilots about to start training that it's a good idea. Of course the later group assume the first group are experienced pilots and worth listening to because that's what they want to believe.

Occasionally someone (with misplaced but good intentions) who has successfully got a job (against all the odds) comes along and relays their own tale and the wannabe's latch on to this as justification to waste more months and another few thousand to chase the dream - "double or quits, if I give up now I've wasted all the money I've spent so far, so I'll spend some more and just hope".

Spreadeagle's comments are the sad truth. It's a numbers game - there are probably ten times more pilots training than actuals jobs. Even in good economic times there have always been many who fail to ever get their first job and eventually have had to give up. But currently and for the last few years every month that passes means another few hundred joining the queue, determined to never give up however hopeless it is. The surplus is so large it can never be cleared.
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Old 18th Jul 2011, 20:24
  #76 (permalink)  
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Rupert360:
Lastly, we (as Brits) have to stop thinking within our own borders so much. The world does not start and end with Ryanair and Easyjet! Even though they are the most ubiquitous carriers in the UK we have the whole EU to think about and then that lingering behemoth ASIA which is touted to have VERY strong growth in its aviation industries between now and 2030.
Did you know that China cannot continue for ever to request more and more energy (oil)? To feed its growth China needs every year more oil. 20 years at the actual growth rate? No way, as simply as that. Anyway they already have billions of people to train if they really do need pilot, they are not expecting you. Foreigners in Asia are most of the times experienced captain... So you have to become an experienced captain before coming to China... Go figure... You are back to your initial issue, finding a job. Anyway making economic plans for the next 20 years that is foolish.




Pelikanpete: so true.





--------------------------------------------

***Reminder to any wannabe: the british Richard Branson (virgin), the german army, the french prime minister, the american army gave some warnings: within 5 years the energy cost, especially oil, will most likely reach an unsustainable level. Think twice...
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Old 20th Jul 2011, 07:35
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Thumbs down

VERY strong growth in its aviation industries between now and 2030.
It doesn't mean they want you, why should they?do you think they will call you one day, and ask you to come to china because you have a blue license?? wouahah!get real!
Housings and life is now too expensive for chinese people, it can not grow like this for ever.If they need copilot, they will send their own guys to USA for training, they will never hire UK boys with their little 700h (500h on airbus).


Pilots want convince themselves and their family that there are job and their license worth something!
There is no job in aviation..If you don't belive me: send some CV, probably no one will answer to you, if they answer , they will tell you: "keep in file", or "reapply in 6 months", or "no opening".

you are bunch of dreamers and in 5 years, most pilots will be out of this industry with new fresh idiots dreamng exactly of the same.
I have seen thousand, all got married, kids, and have been forced to give up aviation.

Aviation is a man' dream! it' s not a profession anymore .it's like these men buying houses, swiming pool, jacuzzi and a plane in the garage at malibu beach or whatever you want. ad 2-3 nices cars.... aviation is part of their dream!
Pilots who say they will fly for nothing, or will be happy to fly for anything, are exactly this type of men! a bunch of spoiled kids! this industry became a joke, a farce, a monkey zoo!!!!so go get some fun with your Bn2...and see if you can make a living afterall!

still if you don;t belive me that you screwed, look at the trend of this last 50 years, have you seen improvment in the aviation industry.

requirement 50years ago: PP.
30 years ago: CPL
20 years ago:CPL+MCC
5 years ago:CPL+MCC+LT
now: 500h LT and then OUT!!!
tomorrow: ????(oh yes, china will hire you but regrettably you are too old)

Last edited by captainsuperstorm; 20th Jul 2011 at 07:51.
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Old 20th Jul 2011, 11:11
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flyvirgin if you wanna land a job there's one ready for you at Susi Air in Indonesia..I'm not kidding, they're starving for pilots.
pilotjobs179 - Latest Pilot Jobs provides the latest aviation vacancies around the world.
Still complaining or you wanna the job?
I'm not advertinsing it..I was in your same position, I waited 15 month to get a pilot job, and now I'm feeling sooo lucky!
Move your ass and come to Indonesia, they're more than welcome to hire you!
Interview is really easy!
Unfortunately it is no more like that.
Even in Susi Air now they are looking for at least 600/700 hours.
No more chance for low houred guys.
I sent my cv to several different addresses I got from a friend of mine and never got a reply.
Somebody who's currently working there told me the requirements are those now.
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Old 23rd Jul 2011, 08:24
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I got from a friend of mine and never got a reply
they don't need pilot. Every day they receive hundrd of CV.

who is the idiot who say they are starving.is this guy working at susi?

get real, there are thousand of pilots looking for job all around the planet, and a few job available... there is no shortage of pilot. are you idiot to not to see it??? there is few chance to get a job at susi so many applicants they receive.
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