FTE Flybe/MPL 2010
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FTE/Flybe MPL 'Part Sponsorship' Scheme 2010
Flight Training Europe Jerez
New flybe MPL 'part-sponsorship' is open for application (through the above link) for 6 students starting 25th June 2010. Closing date for application is 28th February.
Good to see an airline willing to invest money in the future of its potential employees rather than imposing slavery contracts on them!
New flybe MPL 'part-sponsorship' is open for application (through the above link) for 6 students starting 25th June 2010. Closing date for application is 28th February.
Good to see an airline willing to invest money in the future of its potential employees rather than imposing slavery contracts on them!
Last edited by Dear John; 16th Feb 2010 at 17:31.
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This is not a sponsorship scheme. Let's be clear on that! You pay 76k for an MPL. You take all the risk. You have no promises from Flybe. All that happens is they monitor your progress, and if you do well, and if they have positions available when you finish, then they will 'sponsor' your type rating. They then take this 'sponsorship' back out of your salary (25k) for 5 years.
So you earn 20k for 5 years, plus increments, and you have to service 76k debt. Some deal!!
This is yet another example of schools and employers manipulating the facts to get wanabee pilots to shell out huge amounts of money, for a licence you can purchase for half this amount if you do your homework.
Caveat Emptor.
So you earn 20k for 5 years, plus increments, and you have to service 76k debt. Some deal!!
This is yet another example of schools and employers manipulating the facts to get wanabee pilots to shell out huge amounts of money, for a licence you can purchase for half this amount if you do your homework.
Caveat Emptor.
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If you try to do this with 100% debt, it probably won't work out for you. If you've got £20-30K cash to invest, it's a damn good deal and a great airline to end up with. Because it is part sponsored, it might lead some into a false sense of financial security, so run the sums.
I am not slamming the programme, as I think it's a good one. I am saying you need to put in a chunk of cash for it to be manageable.
Flybe pay for the Type Rating and don't collect this back, so they are loaning £20K at zero interest and funding probably £15-20K in Type and Base Training expenses. This is a very good deal nowadays, but since they only pay £25K, it's the only way it can work for most wannabes. At least Flybe are realistic about it!
Do the math for the 100% debt option as follows:
Calculate the loan payments on £56K (I have subtracted Flybe's contribution from FTE's £76K price but it is a zero interest loan, just not from a bank). Hopefully you can get a 10 year loan or longer on any bank loan you may need.
Calculate then subtract the tax and NI from the £25K salary. Your net pay will be about £1600 pcm. If you have a UK Uni student loan, deduct £75 pcm.
Next, deduct Flybe's £330 pcm loan repayment then the bank's repayment on the £56K loan. I am not providing an estimated bank loan payment because I don't know what terms you might be able to get.
Deduct rent, car running costs, food, insurance, household bills, etc. You probably won't get to the end of the bills before you reach the end of the money if you used £76K of debt (£56K from a bank and £20K from Flybe). The fact that Flybe don't charge interest is great, but the five year repayment period means a larger payment than you'd ahve on a 10 year £20K bank loan, which more than wipes out the net effect of Flybe's zero interest.
If you run the sums again using £20K cash and a £36K bank loan along with Flybe's £20K contribution, the numbers come out very manageable. Put in £30K cash and you'll probably be able to buy a decent new car in the second year of the job.
Flybe have been profitable throughout the downturn, they have drained the hold pool and taken all of the previous year's cadets into type and line training and they have kept recruiting cadets throughout the recession, so the downside risk is probably less here than for any other option outside a full scholarship.
Dr. Eckener doesn't quite have the facts correct. The year one salary is £25K. There will also be a few £K worth of flight pay. If Flybe don't take you on, you do not have to repay their £20K contribution. The salary goes up several £K each year, as per the chart shown if you read the T&Cs in the link on the application page.
I am not slamming the programme, as I think it's a good one. I am saying you need to put in a chunk of cash for it to be manageable.
Flybe pay for the Type Rating and don't collect this back, so they are loaning £20K at zero interest and funding probably £15-20K in Type and Base Training expenses. This is a very good deal nowadays, but since they only pay £25K, it's the only way it can work for most wannabes. At least Flybe are realistic about it!
Do the math for the 100% debt option as follows:
Calculate the loan payments on £56K (I have subtracted Flybe's contribution from FTE's £76K price but it is a zero interest loan, just not from a bank). Hopefully you can get a 10 year loan or longer on any bank loan you may need.
Calculate then subtract the tax and NI from the £25K salary. Your net pay will be about £1600 pcm. If you have a UK Uni student loan, deduct £75 pcm.
Next, deduct Flybe's £330 pcm loan repayment then the bank's repayment on the £56K loan. I am not providing an estimated bank loan payment because I don't know what terms you might be able to get.
Deduct rent, car running costs, food, insurance, household bills, etc. You probably won't get to the end of the bills before you reach the end of the money if you used £76K of debt (£56K from a bank and £20K from Flybe). The fact that Flybe don't charge interest is great, but the five year repayment period means a larger payment than you'd ahve on a 10 year £20K bank loan, which more than wipes out the net effect of Flybe's zero interest.
If you run the sums again using £20K cash and a £36K bank loan along with Flybe's £20K contribution, the numbers come out very manageable. Put in £30K cash and you'll probably be able to buy a decent new car in the second year of the job.
Flybe have been profitable throughout the downturn, they have drained the hold pool and taken all of the previous year's cadets into type and line training and they have kept recruiting cadets throughout the recession, so the downside risk is probably less here than for any other option outside a full scholarship.
Dr. Eckener doesn't quite have the facts correct. The year one salary is £25K. There will also be a few £K worth of flight pay. If Flybe don't take you on, you do not have to repay their £20K contribution. The salary goes up several £K each year, as per the chart shown if you read the T&Cs in the link on the application page.
Last edited by Adios; 16th Feb 2010 at 22:13.
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Calculate the loan payments on £56K (I have subtracted Flybe's contribution from FTE's £76K price because it is a zero interest loan).
There really is no genuine sponsorship on offer here. You will be servicing a 76k debt with 20k salary. End of story.
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Dr. Eckener,
I think you are wrong, but I see how you could read it that way. This is not how they ran it last year and they are one of the few honourable airlines left, so I doubt that they have just raised the cost by £19,800. If they have, they should expect that the successful candidates will withdraw once they crunch their numbers.
A quick call to Flybe or FTE tomorrow should clear this up. In previous year's they paid the £19,800 to FTE/OAA/Cabair, etc., so it definitely wasn't for the type rating.
If I am correct, you still repay the Flybe contribution, therefore the statement that you pay £76K is factually correct, while still confusing.
Furthermore, I submit for consideration the fact that Flybe have never charged for type training, not even when they hire self-sponsored wannabes on the back end of their course. They use a three year decreasing bond for type training, but they have never done SSTRs.
I think you are wrong, but I see how you could read it that way. This is not how they ran it last year and they are one of the few honourable airlines left, so I doubt that they have just raised the cost by £19,800. If they have, they should expect that the successful candidates will withdraw once they crunch their numbers.
A quick call to Flybe or FTE tomorrow should clear this up. In previous year's they paid the £19,800 to FTE/OAA/Cabair, etc., so it definitely wasn't for the type rating.
If I am correct, you still repay the Flybe contribution, therefore the statement that you pay £76K is factually correct, while still confusing.
Furthermore, I submit for consideration the fact that Flybe have never charged for type training, not even when they hire self-sponsored wannabes on the back end of their course. They use a three year decreasing bond for type training, but they have never done SSTRs.
for a licence you can purchase for half this amount if you do your homework.
Not for an MPL, you can't. Maybe an ATPL.
The wording is:-
"students will undergo a fully Flybe funded Q400 Type Rating course.
In addition to the support outlined in the above paragraph, those successful for the Partially Sponsored Airline Scheme will receive an additional sponsorship from Flybe of GBP £19,800.00," (my italics)
ie Flybe pay for the type rating and give the student an additional £19,800 towards the FTE fees of £76,000. At least that is how I read it.
Last edited by Groundloop; 17th Feb 2010 at 08:34.
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will receive an additional sponsorship from Flybe of GBP £19,800.00, repayable out of salary over the first five years of employment.
If successful you will have to fund FTE’s MPL programme.
The price for this course is GBP76,000.
The price for this course is GBP76,000.
If successful throughout the training at FTE no further selection will be required by Flybe
OK, so I might have missed out a bit of flight pay on offer, and granted over 5 years the base salary rises by 7k, but it is still poor value.
Not for an MPL, you can't
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Although I agree it is badly represented on the website, in the previous year of running the MPL at Jerez the cost to the student was £56k, flybe contributing the remaining £19,800. This is then repayable over 5 years from your wage. So in actual fact you are paying £76k in total, but the amount you will have paid after leaving training is £56k. The remainder is paid back in the form of a reduced wage for 5 years. The type-rating is also fully funded by flybe (provided you don't leave them within 3 years).
Anyone wanting to apply is well advised to very carefully crunch their numbers to make sure they can afford it, following the helpful advice given by Adios. In my personal opinion, £56k and a reduced wage is a pretty reasonable deal from an airline for a licence and a type rating these days. It is not without risk however, there are still large amounts of money and debt involved so anyone applying should give this a lot of consideration!
Pretty accurate analysis.
Anyone wanting to apply is well advised to very carefully crunch their numbers to make sure they can afford it, following the helpful advice given by Adios. In my personal opinion, £56k and a reduced wage is a pretty reasonable deal from an airline for a licence and a type rating these days. It is not without risk however, there are still large amounts of money and debt involved so anyone applying should give this a lot of consideration!
If you try to do this with 100% debt, it probably won't work out for you. If you've got £20-30K cash to invest, it's a damn good deal and a great airline to end up with. Because it is part sponsored, it might lead some into a false sense of financial security, so run the sums.
I am not slamming the programme, as I think it's a good one. I am saying you need to put in a chunk of cash for it to be manageable.
I am not slamming the programme, as I think it's a good one. I am saying you need to put in a chunk of cash for it to be manageable.
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As I stated - no risk to Flybe. You pay, they merely 'watch'.
Who wants an MPL? Useless for anything if Flybe change their mind!!
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I enquired today and was told the £19,800 offsets the £76K price of the training done by FTE. Flybe pays it directly to FTE just like last year. They also fund the type rating, which they deliver at their own training center and this need not be repaid unless you leave before 36 months service.
Last year Flybe required the FTO to guarantee conversion to CPL/IR if the CAA or JAA withdraw approval for MPL or if Flybe goes to the wall and can't type rate the cadets. I haven't seen mention of this so far this year.
Last year Flybe required the FTO to guarantee conversion to CPL/IR if the CAA or JAA withdraw approval for MPL or if Flybe goes to the wall and can't type rate the cadets. I haven't seen mention of this so far this year.
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Eomni,
After your training, you will graduate with either a CPL or a MPL, depending on which route you choose. Both licences eventually mature into ATPLs. Be very careful about muddling up a CPL and ATPL - they are not the same thing.
How would either route affect your future career? It all depends on how long you would expect to stay at Flybe, or any other operator, before you planned to move on to the next stage of your career.
After you have achieved approx 1500hrs and met the eligibility criteria to upgrade your licence (whether MPL or CPL), you will have the ATPL exactly the same as every other pilot. Once you have the ATPL, most operators are only interested in your experience and aircraft types, not which route you chose for training. At Flybe, under 'normal' circumstances in a healthy aviation marketplace, gaining your ATPL would take between 2 and 2 1/2 years on average. Regardless of your chosen training route, at this stage you would still be bonded to the airline.
If the MPL interests you, research it carefully. If all you desire is an airline job in a multi-crew environment, then it may be the licence you wish to pursue. If however, you wish to have the opportunity to indulge in single pilot ops (whether commercial or just for fun), then you would have to conduct additional training and testing in order to qualify for the necessary ratings, which are granted automatically with a CPL. Given that you are having to borrow 100% of your funding, I very much doubt you would be able to afford any such indulgences as private GA flying anyway.
As to the respective risks associated with both schemes, at present it is probably 6 and two 3s. The MPL comes with a commitment of training support and as close to a guarantee of employment anyone can get in the current job market, but at the cost of limiting your employment options in the short term to one type. The CPL leaves more doors open to you, but at present, there are no jobs behind the vast majority of those doors, unless you wish to buy a type rating and place your trust in the hands of some very unscrupulous operators.
It is possible to convert the MPL to a CPL at any stage, for a cost, and the training providers should all be offering this as an option.
After your training, you will graduate with either a CPL or a MPL, depending on which route you choose. Both licences eventually mature into ATPLs. Be very careful about muddling up a CPL and ATPL - they are not the same thing.
How would either route affect your future career? It all depends on how long you would expect to stay at Flybe, or any other operator, before you planned to move on to the next stage of your career.
After you have achieved approx 1500hrs and met the eligibility criteria to upgrade your licence (whether MPL or CPL), you will have the ATPL exactly the same as every other pilot. Once you have the ATPL, most operators are only interested in your experience and aircraft types, not which route you chose for training. At Flybe, under 'normal' circumstances in a healthy aviation marketplace, gaining your ATPL would take between 2 and 2 1/2 years on average. Regardless of your chosen training route, at this stage you would still be bonded to the airline.
If the MPL interests you, research it carefully. If all you desire is an airline job in a multi-crew environment, then it may be the licence you wish to pursue. If however, you wish to have the opportunity to indulge in single pilot ops (whether commercial or just for fun), then you would have to conduct additional training and testing in order to qualify for the necessary ratings, which are granted automatically with a CPL. Given that you are having to borrow 100% of your funding, I very much doubt you would be able to afford any such indulgences as private GA flying anyway.
As to the respective risks associated with both schemes, at present it is probably 6 and two 3s. The MPL comes with a commitment of training support and as close to a guarantee of employment anyone can get in the current job market, but at the cost of limiting your employment options in the short term to one type. The CPL leaves more doors open to you, but at present, there are no jobs behind the vast majority of those doors, unless you wish to buy a type rating and place your trust in the hands of some very unscrupulous operators.
It is possible to convert the MPL to a CPL at any stage, for a cost, and the training providers should all be offering this as an option.
Last edited by Otto Throttle; 20th Feb 2010 at 10:27.
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Eomni,
Any one who takes an MPL course and would like to be able to fly single pilot for pleasure can do it pretty easily. The CAA will accept ATPL theory exams in lieu of PPL exams, so adding a PPL after completing MPL would be fairly easy. If the MPL syllabus includes a 150NM cross country during the single engine phase, I would imagine a PPL skills test with an examiner is all you'd need.
The MPL doesn't tie you to a single type or to a single operator (for example, most of the Sterling MPL's got picked up by Ryanair when Sterling failed), though the bond will achieve the latter. Last year, Flybe required their FTO's to guarantee that they would fund and deliver training to single pilot CPL/ME/IRMCC standard if Flybe went to the wall. I don't know if they are requiring it this year, but FTE's web site makes no mention of it this year.
Any one who takes an MPL course and would like to be able to fly single pilot for pleasure can do it pretty easily. The CAA will accept ATPL theory exams in lieu of PPL exams, so adding a PPL after completing MPL would be fairly easy. If the MPL syllabus includes a 150NM cross country during the single engine phase, I would imagine a PPL skills test with an examiner is all you'd need.
The MPL doesn't tie you to a single type or to a single operator (for example, most of the Sterling MPL's got picked up by Ryanair when Sterling failed), though the bond will achieve the latter. Last year, Flybe required their FTO's to guarantee that they would fund and deliver training to single pilot CPL/ME/IRMCC standard if Flybe went to the wall. I don't know if they are requiring it this year, but FTE's web site makes no mention of it this year.
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wonder will these mpl'ers be chosen ahead of the atpl'ers(non sponsored) that flybe have sitting in their hold pool...
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Flybe definitely still have pilots in the hold pool.
And yes, the MPL students, along with any other Flybe-sponsored or mentored cadets take priority over any other pilot in the Flybe hold pool.
And yes, the MPL students, along with any other Flybe-sponsored or mentored cadets take priority over any other pilot in the Flybe hold pool.
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ya partly guessed, I am in the non sponsored hold pool for last year...i knew that it was going to be a wait, but the thought of another year is depressing...working a crap job with most of my money being spent on hold pool currency hours....with no definate outcome 
That aside still counting myself lucky to be in flybe hold pool
That aside still counting myself lucky to be in flybe hold pool
