Portuguese Market
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Portuguese Market
I'm wondering for those with any insight as to what the Portuguese market may be like these days for commercial pilots. Netjets has furloughed crews, and TAP is reducing their winter capacity. In general though, are there any expectations for hiring in Portugal anytime soon? If so, what are the entry requirements? I am presently a 500 hour Canadian pilot with turbine experience, and am considering converting to a JAA licence, but the cost and time may not be worth it in the end. I am fluent in Portuguese, and have a Portuguese passport and citizenship.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
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I don't know about the market in Portugal but you have one of two important requeriments, speak portuguese.
Second is a JAA licence, if you had a FAA licence and you can get a Job in USA o Canada, still there.
If you want live in Portugal you will need close 12-18 month to get a JAA licence.
Maybe you can ask to convert in AERONAUTICAL ACADEMY OF EUROPE - Academia Aeronáutica de Évora, S.A.
Second is a JAA licence, if you had a FAA licence and you can get a Job in USA o Canada, still there.
If you want live in Portugal you will need close 12-18 month to get a JAA licence.
Maybe you can ask to convert in AERONAUTICAL ACADEMY OF EUROPE - Academia Aeronáutica de Évora, S.A.
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I asked the same questions a few years ago and the answers I got back then were all positive. Things in Portugal were great and opportunities were many. But unfortunately times have changed.
I arrived in Portugal over a year ago to to my JAA validation at AAE (highly recommendable, but not the cheapest) and on the 1st day, during the 1st hour of theory our lecturer told us that things were really bad and were only going to get worse! Boy was he right!
Out of the 40 odd Portuguese students that have graduate at AAE within the last year, only 2 have obtained a flying job (one of them in Angola). Yet, the number of student enrolling themselves in the ATPL courses is just getting greater and greater. From what I hear, the schools in Lisbon (Cascais) are also packed.
TAP, sorry to say, but forget about it. Long gone are the days when guys and girls with fresh ATPL and 200/300 hrs got in. Even then other "elements" were involved. Nowadays things have changed. The last recruitment course they had was in March (Or February....not sure) 2009 for 8 positions. They received over 400 applications. Who got the job? Guys with thousands of hours on jets that have been working in other countries. The only non jet experienced applicant the got a place was a multi-engine instructor with over 1500 flying hours, but.......he's only 22/23 years old!
Other airlines in Portugal? Well, there aren't so many. I guess the only one that recruits a lot of low hour pilots is PGA, which I've heard is a fantastic company to work for and to fly with. But, they have had many "cost cuts" and haven't recruited any one in the last few months.
SATA......."other elements" involved to get in. Euroatlantic, don't know much about the company. Other than that only bizjets and I don't think they will call someone with low hours....especially now.
So, what I'm trying to say is that the time is not right to come to Portugal. I'm not trying to "bad mouth" any airline, I think they are all great and very professional. But don't make the same mistake it did. Spending a lot of time and money. If I were you I'ed stay in Canada, get a flying job, build more experience and qualifications and keep your Portuguese "current"
. Then when the time is right, move to Portugal and your opportunities will be much greater.
Hope I was of some help, despite all the negative facts, but, unfortunatley.....its the truth my friend.
I arrived in Portugal over a year ago to to my JAA validation at AAE (highly recommendable, but not the cheapest) and on the 1st day, during the 1st hour of theory our lecturer told us that things were really bad and were only going to get worse! Boy was he right!
Out of the 40 odd Portuguese students that have graduate at AAE within the last year, only 2 have obtained a flying job (one of them in Angola). Yet, the number of student enrolling themselves in the ATPL courses is just getting greater and greater. From what I hear, the schools in Lisbon (Cascais) are also packed.
TAP, sorry to say, but forget about it. Long gone are the days when guys and girls with fresh ATPL and 200/300 hrs got in. Even then other "elements" were involved. Nowadays things have changed. The last recruitment course they had was in March (Or February....not sure) 2009 for 8 positions. They received over 400 applications. Who got the job? Guys with thousands of hours on jets that have been working in other countries. The only non jet experienced applicant the got a place was a multi-engine instructor with over 1500 flying hours, but.......he's only 22/23 years old!
Other airlines in Portugal? Well, there aren't so many. I guess the only one that recruits a lot of low hour pilots is PGA, which I've heard is a fantastic company to work for and to fly with. But, they have had many "cost cuts" and haven't recruited any one in the last few months.
SATA......."other elements" involved to get in. Euroatlantic, don't know much about the company. Other than that only bizjets and I don't think they will call someone with low hours....especially now.
So, what I'm trying to say is that the time is not right to come to Portugal. I'm not trying to "bad mouth" any airline, I think they are all great and very professional. But don't make the same mistake it did. Spending a lot of time and money. If I were you I'ed stay in Canada, get a flying job, build more experience and qualifications and keep your Portuguese "current"
. Then when the time is right, move to Portugal and your opportunities will be much greater.Hope I was of some help, despite all the negative facts, but, unfortunatley.....its the truth my friend.
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I couldn't have putted better myself! Just to add that PGA are not only not hiring as they're equating the possibility of firing... other than that I think your post describes the situation in Portugal very, very accurately.
To think that only 2-3 years ago you'd easily find a flying job out of the Academy with 200h.
To think that only 2-3 years ago you'd easily find a flying job out of the Academy with 200h.
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I never thanked everybody for their responses, but it is very much appreciated. Things in Canada are slowly recovering, but far from great. I imagine Portugal has yet to see any positive signs?
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yeah to reply to your post things here arent any better. I just finished my course at AAE, i have 200 or so hrs and im looking myself if i can get anything together to get started but i highly doubt it, at least for now. From what i can tell TAP wont be hiring until 2013 or at least thats what theyre saying and Netjets still have pilts on payment plans so no dice there either. good luck with your search though.
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Sounds like sticking to Canada for now and building experience is the best possible solution. Maybe revisit the idea of moving to Portugal in a few years, perhaps with an ATPL in hand.
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I want to thanks the original poster for making this thread, and thank you everyone for answering. Would a dual citizen who is currently 25 and working for a US Regional have a chance of landing a job there? It is my dream to fly in Portugal, and would love some feedback.
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Hum .... sorry but I disagree a bit with the last statement. 3 years is a very long time in aviation.
Soxs and NG78
My advice would be to work on getting the ATPL written exams done, not easy (and not cheap) I know but it is doable and without that I don't see much of a chance. Naturally getting as much experience as possible and, if you don't speak much of the local language, brush up a bit on that with ... family, I guess (always helpfull and shows a genuine wish of getting there)
Soxs and NG78
My advice would be to work on getting the ATPL written exams done, not easy (and not cheap) I know but it is doable and without that I don't see much of a chance. Naturally getting as much experience as possible and, if you don't speak much of the local language, brush up a bit on that with ... family, I guess (always helpfull and shows a genuine wish of getting there)
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Zero, I agree. In aviation things change very fast, often for the worse, but sometimes for the better. TAP has improved their position in the last little while, so it is inevitable that they will need pilots at some point in the future. Whether that is in a year, three, or longer remains to be seen. It is also inevitable that some TAP pilots will leave for airlines in the Middle East and Asia in search of better compensation or a different lifestyle. For now I think I will continue to work towards my Canadian ATPL and then focus my attention on the JAA ATPL, including the 14 written exams. Good luck to Red Soxs as well!
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Looks like TAP is looking for pilots once again. With the country in worsening financial shape, and of course the imminent privatization of TAP, I'm curious to know how things are looking in Portugal for pilots, and if there are still a lot of unemployed pilots with some experience in the country.
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TAP's asking for new pilots... 1000h on your pocket and half the way is done 
now... for the reasons why they're recruiting:
- already 9 pilots went away to Emirates
- 40 more probably on the way
- now that Emirates opened a DEC (so it seems) recruitment... well... you can expect 40 more to go... (in a total of 800 pilots.. that gives you 5% to 10% of the fleet on the way out)
Life in Portugal is not easy... lots of taxes (pilots can expect around 41% tax total cut on their pay check plus things like 23% VAT and no bonus) with constant new "surprises" given by the government and there isn't much of a career prospect in the company (best numbers give a 24 year wait to CM1).
It is a pity, cause it's a great country to live in, awesome weather, nice ppl, safe to walk around, great food and lovely countryside. (been walking today with a short sleeved shirt.. 18º and sunny like summer )
As for a list of companies to work with:
- TAP (state owned. soon to be privatized) - Airbus
- SATA (Azores government owned) - Airbus
- Sata
- PGA (Portugalia Airlines. belongs to TAP group) - Embraer, Foker
- Euroatlantic (charter based) - Boing
- HiFly (ACMI based) - Airbus
- White (charter) - Airbus
- NetJets (private) - several
- AeroVIP (mostly domestic and air taxy) - Dornier
- Easyjet - Airbus
- Ryanair - Boing
As for a license... well... JAA.. check INAC for info. Portuguese is usually a requirement.. but not always... I know of Cpts in HiFly who don't speak Pt. Major national airlines DO require Pt (spoken and writen - TAP, PGA, SATA).
If you need to convert your license, always check first with the national CAA (INAC), but there are 3 major places for FT.
Lisbon: Cascais Airfield LPCS (GESTAIR, OMNI, LEAVIA), WebAcademy (near LPPT)
Evora: Evora airfield LPEV (AAE - Academia Aeronautica de Evora)
Porto: Don't have much info on it.. but try "Nortavia"
Good luck to everyone
ps: my advice.. stay out of Pt for the time being... give it a decade and then come for the fish and wine
now... for the reasons why they're recruiting:
- already 9 pilots went away to Emirates
- 40 more probably on the way
- now that Emirates opened a DEC (so it seems) recruitment... well... you can expect 40 more to go... (in a total of 800 pilots.. that gives you 5% to 10% of the fleet on the way out)
Life in Portugal is not easy... lots of taxes (pilots can expect around 41% tax total cut on their pay check plus things like 23% VAT and no bonus) with constant new "surprises" given by the government and there isn't much of a career prospect in the company (best numbers give a 24 year wait to CM1).
It is a pity, cause it's a great country to live in, awesome weather, nice ppl, safe to walk around, great food and lovely countryside. (been walking today with a short sleeved shirt.. 18º and sunny like summer
)As for a list of companies to work with:
- TAP (state owned. soon to be privatized) - Airbus
- SATA (Azores government owned) - Airbus
- Sata
- PGA (Portugalia Airlines. belongs to TAP group) - Embraer, Foker
- Euroatlantic (charter based) - Boing
- HiFly (ACMI based) - Airbus
- White (charter) - Airbus
- NetJets (private) - several
- AeroVIP (mostly domestic and air taxy) - Dornier
- Easyjet - Airbus
- Ryanair - Boing
As for a license... well... JAA.. check INAC for info. Portuguese is usually a requirement.. but not always... I know of Cpts in HiFly who don't speak Pt. Major national airlines DO require Pt (spoken and writen - TAP, PGA, SATA).
If you need to convert your license, always check first with the national CAA (INAC), but there are 3 major places for FT.
Lisbon: Cascais Airfield LPCS (GESTAIR, OMNI, LEAVIA), WebAcademy (near LPPT)
Evora: Evora airfield LPEV (AAE - Academia Aeronautica de Evora)
Porto: Don't have much info on it.. but try "Nortavia"
Good luck to everyone
ps: my advice.. stay out of Pt for the time being... give it a decade and then come for the fish and wine
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Madp1lot, thanks for the very comprehensive post. I'm fluent in Portuguese, and have dual citizenship (Luso Canadian). The Canadian market is doing much better these days, but it's still a long road to decent wages and equipment. It seems things may be picking up a bit in Portugal too, but it's far from where it should be as well. I agree that it's likely not worth the expense and effort to convert to the JAA licence right now, especially if I have to quit my current job.
I agree Portugal is a great country, which is why I try to stay informed. I will have to go to INAC during my vacation this year to get some more information. Do you know if there are a lot of low time pilots looking for work these days?
Hopefully better times are around the corner for all!
I agree Portugal is a great country, which is why I try to stay informed. I will have to go to INAC during my vacation this year to get some more information. Do you know if there are a lot of low time pilots looking for work these days?
Hopefully better times are around the corner for all!
