Interviews, jobs & sponsorshipDo ya feel lucky, Punk? Well do ya? If so, here's the place to swap the hot gen on who's sponsoring or employing, their selection criteria, and where those oh so elusive first jobs can be spotted in the wild. Watch out for the tumbleweeds...
If "ithinkso's" from where I think he's from then to a certain degree, his statement about lo-co's is probably right. European lo-co's are a different kettle of fish.
I came across this thread by accident, whilst searching for something else regarding recruitment. (Anyone know if or when Virgin are recruiting, and how you apply?) and I have been completely hooked on reading each and every post.
I was once a CPL/IR 250 hour pilot, dreaming of sitting in the right hand seat of a shiny Boeing jet. Then 2000 CV's later, and still no reply from those dudes from Cameroon looking for an F/O in a Cargo converted HS748, flying goats up the valley, and dodging anti-aircraft fire, (actually sounds like fun), I decided to get a Flight Instructor rating.
I was an instructor at a flying club which was part of an airport, and as a result, many airline pilots came around to the club for toasties and coffee before and after work. Eventually, I had a big break, as many other of my instructor colleagues did previously, and landed a jet job, after just 9 months instructing.
I'm nobody special. I didn't pass all my exams and tests first time! I wasn't even that great an instructor! I was luckier than 6 of my instructor colleagues in the fact that I got a 737 job straight away whilst they got ATR jobs, but now they are all on A319's or 737's now.
It is about being in the right place at the right time, and about knowing people. But you can create that for yourself. Don't get a job down a garden centre, or behind a bar, like some of my mates have after training. If you really want that job, you've got to GO TO IT. It won't come to you, with 250 hours. Like many here have said, drop jumpers, instruct, polish bloody planes, serve coffee to passengers, but whatever you do, stay in aviation on a daily basis. Choose a flying club within an airport that has regional props or loco jets flying in and out of it. You may have to move. If you want it that bad, do it! Don't pick a flying club in mid wales with a 1200ft runway and 3 tomahawks you won't meet enough people in the right positions. And be nice. Have a gentle and careful attitude (Vito!) I understand your frustrations, but if you're going to be like that after 6 months looking for a job, man, I would hate to be sitting next to you for 12 hours a day, experiencing some of the shit we have to put up with on line! Just smile, be happy, and be liked, and you might get the nod!
(It's nice to be important. But its more important to be nice)
i have worked for company's and addmitingley had the odd word put in the right ear however i am on the long road to being an airline pilot and i know its going to be a a hard and paticualary long road compared with many other jobs!!!
What still surprises me is that you if you are willing to go and spend all that money, as i am, and pass all those exams you still rarley get a look in.
i quote from a reputable flight instructor " its not what you know, its who you know" i thought those days were gone but clearly not!!!!!!!!!!!
Alot of people on here seem to not read the newspapers. So here's a tip. Keep current with what is going on in the world, have a good attitude and try and be a little more modest. Try and keep your licence current.
There have been a number of mergers recently which means that there will be a reduction of pilot numbers rather than an increase. Some airlines (like the one I work for) are ordering bigger aircraft to cope with increases in passenger loads so even with an increase in business there might not be more jobs. You would also know that in Asia airlines are rapidly expanding, which may impact on the UK market.
If you have the right attitude and are persistent then things will pay off for you.
No airline owes you a job and if that attitude comes across then you won't get a job flying.
And yes, I am a real pilot and no, I didn't get my job through anyone I knew or having lots of money.
After reading Airbus Girl I had to write a comment...
Seams that the PPRuNe forum is only about the UK.
I do not want to get into how and why you driving a bus, but you are a girl and that matters, company love to hire girls. So like you say let's be all a bit more humble. (please do not take it personal)
Mergers...yes they are not good for anyone, only the share holders.
Asia market expanding, YES, taking over the world.... I doubt it, if you knew how things are in Asia you will not be afraid at all, it will take decades if not century for this people to get their stuff together. BELIEVE me! the longer I am here the longer I think is going to take, I could write a funny (after the fact, when it happens is infuriating) book of things that happened in Asia.
In the bright side, this is the best times in aviation ever! new planes, new avionics-information systems, new everything!
Attitude should matter, and I think in everything but the airlines matters, who wants to work with an asshole, but I think to the airlines the only thing it matters is money, because I have seen a lot of assholes getting jobs with them.
Please new guys! check the spelling on your CV, organize it so the receiver does not have to search for what license from what country you have(modify it to fit the job that you are applying for), how much times you have in what, and please when you have an interview, be as serious as you can be, I have been on some, lately that they thought I was their buddy or something.
I am still always "chocked" when I see guys coming with jeans and T-shirt for an interview.
Get a clue!, an interviewer want see how you will look if you get the job.
Get a hair cut, and dress smart.
I can not believe it's not real butter, but some guys come unshaved and with long hair!
There are a damn sight more guys than just you out there who've been searching and slaving for a lot longer.
Then all this about cityjet (who incidentally would have made it clear to you from the start what the conditions of recruitment were) who you seem to think should just hire you because you paid £350.
I'm afraid there aren't many cheap hand-outs in this business like you seem to think. You remind me of a guy who had everything paid and done for him, then when it was his turn to perform he got upset that it was actually more difficult than it looked.
Sorry, this is prob. a really dumb question? but it was mentioned that buying your own "TR" can get you a job..........i was just wondering what this means???
You can pay for your own type rating on a 737 or whatever, then apply to a 737 operator already knowing how to fly their aircraft. It can be very beneficial but the problem is that many people will already have forked out tens of thousands for ATPL training, and £15-20k on top for a TR is a lot to ask, hence the big debate over whether it's worth it.
To me is as unethical as people working for peanuts.
not only they work for peanuts, but some pilots are forced to leave their job.
I have met some pilots, who recently told me that if they don't make enough money after 3 months, they will be forced to leave their flying job considering they have 2-3 kids at home to feed (some companies pay you 1500 euro/month and you must pay your TR).
well, if some pilots love so much this job and be paid nothing, take my place.
When considering a career change, individuals must move into their new career with open eyes, and be aware of any risks. To say otherwise is stupid. Just because people don't earn as much as they think is not an excuse to jump up and down and sulk.
I'm well aware I might be working for peanuts for my first 6 months. I have weighed the risks, and I am lucky that I am a 22 year old, single man living at home. For someone with a family, a house, bills and an expensive wife, perhaps TR's aren't the way forward. Different people will have different routes into the industry.
Anyways, plenty of Instructing jobs, usually a good place to start so you can learn:
* People Skills (which alot of pilots dont have)
* Hone the flying sskills you already have and
* make new contacts and build up total time.
Yes it is not overly awesome as scoring a twin job staight out of school.....but few people really do...... the industry is changing so people with less time seem to be getting twin jobs more than a couple years ago.....so consider yourself lucky that this is happening.....
Also, most people think that this is a normal job.....bullsh*t!!!!!!! You cant send your resume and expect phone calls with employers to beg you for a job....especially for a job in high performance a/c (twins etc).
You have to visit them or phone them (not stalk them) and show that you keen....... Take this on board........ you have not had any practical industry experience only theory flying.......you need real world experience and that's what will get you the job....
To keep the job; save the employer money (fuel costs) keep the planes in good nick (clean, maintenance discussions with cheif pilot etc), be flexible AND DONT BE A ******** TO SENIOR PILOTS.....they have more influence on your job than you think sometimes. Do things the way the company and senior pilots like things to be done and discuss with them other options if you think there is a better way.
Expect to be worked to the bone ( I have worked almost 6days per week on average for about 3 to 4 years and less than $28000p/a to get to the position i am in now...1700Hrs 600twin PIC hours etc) so dont whine about the hard yards.
Skydiving work may be your other option...don't discount it completely as it will teach you how to be a real world savvy pilot...and handle pressure!
) I understand your frustrations, but if you're going to be like that after 6 months looking for a job, man, I would hate to be sitting next to you for 12 hours a day, experiencing some of the shit we have to put up with on line! Just smile, be happy, and be liked, and you might get the nod!
and i know its going to be a a hard and paticualary long road compared with many other jobs!!!
hole, but I think to the airlines the only thing it matters is money, because I have seen a lot of ass
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