Loganair
Join Date: Aug 2001
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I do hope it isn't correct. But unfortunately BM states the truth. The amount of fools before who have paid for a TR make it a possibility. In the past though a jet TR may be more practical due to the higher salary. Not many TP airlines require it, most do still bond. i would say vote with your feet. But no point as someone will always pay the price!!!!
There seems to be an increasing degradation in Ts and Cs recently with Logan. Seemingly the pension is being eroded. If this is true about the Type rating then what next. Strange, I thought they posted record profits recently. I hope this doesnt hack of the good guys they do have.
SK
There seems to be an increasing degradation in Ts and Cs recently with Logan. Seemingly the pension is being eroded. If this is true about the Type rating then what next. Strange, I thought they posted record profits recently. I hope this doesnt hack of the good guys they do have.
SK
Join Date: Mar 2006
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I'm not sure if a jet TR would be more practical due to a higher salary, especially if FR are involved.
Forget all that stuff about thrust and drag, lift and gravity, an airplane flies because of money!
Forget all that stuff about thrust and drag, lift and gravity, an airplane flies because of money!
Join Date: Jun 2000
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That is just outrageous!!! £13500 for the rating and £6000 for the base and line training on a Saab 340. £21500 and no job unless you pass, they must be having a laugh.
The idea of paying for a rating up front stinks and should be banned. Unfortunatly if people keep agreeing to these schemes they will become more and more fatuous. Logan are taking the p155. What has Logan to loose, they try this scheme and people are daft enough to agree to it happy days for them, they will be laughing at you the moment you walk in the door. We got this mug to pay for his/her Saab rating. If people don`t take it well they have lost nothing they just go back to bonding.
It took me 2 years to get my first job. Now my 3rd rating and i haven`t paid for any of them. Bonded yes and still am. There are companies out there who still bond, but if Logan have success with this p155 take they will all be at it.
I know all to well the awful process of landing that first job, i doubt i was ever that desperate to cough up 21K. Try flybe they dont bond at the mo But hang on in there.
The idea of paying for a rating up front stinks and should be banned. Unfortunatly if people keep agreeing to these schemes they will become more and more fatuous. Logan are taking the p155. What has Logan to loose, they try this scheme and people are daft enough to agree to it happy days for them, they will be laughing at you the moment you walk in the door. We got this mug to pay for his/her Saab rating. If people don`t take it well they have lost nothing they just go back to bonding.
It took me 2 years to get my first job. Now my 3rd rating and i haven`t paid for any of them. Bonded yes and still am. There are companies out there who still bond, but if Logan have success with this p155 take they will all be at it.
I know all to well the awful process of landing that first job, i doubt i was ever that desperate to cough up 21K. Try flybe they dont bond at the mo But hang on in there.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Flybe do bond and they arrange a loan for you for 13k which they pay back unless you leave before your bond is up (3 years) which is fair. The 13K reduces per month equally over the 3 years.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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idiocy
Originally Posted by MVE
I'm sorry, I must have mis-read, you want to work for an airline that wants you to lend them money? What!?, are you fu$%%%^ stupid? What the hell has gone wrong with our industry? Next you'll be telling me there are airlines with people willing to pay for their own type ratings!!!!!
Tell them to stick the job! Keep instructing until a decent airline makes you an offer, the idea is you get paid by them and not the other way round!
Tell them to stick the job! Keep instructing until a decent airline makes you an offer, the idea is you get paid by them and not the other way round!In response to this message I had to reply. Do you know anything about our industry. Countless numbers of operators are asking for bonding agreements for your type-rating which is the same thing as the 12000 loan to logan. In fact it is much like paying for your own rating which although is slagged off is actually not a bad way to go so long as you get type-experience with it.
Once completed you get it all back in salary anyway. Most people are delighted when they get offered their first job and I say take it instead of sitting around hoping for more offers. You know how hard this industry is to crack into!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Do you know anything about our industry. Countless numbers of operators are asking for bonding agreements for your type-rating which is the same thing as the 12000 loan to logan. In fact it is much like paying for your own rating which although is slagged off is actually not a bad way to go so long as you get type-experience with it.Once completed you get it all back in salary anyway. Most people are delighted when they get offered their first job and I say take it instead of sitting around hoping for more offers. You know how hard this industry is to crack into!!!!!!!!
What a load of b*&&)C£s! You get it all back in salary? My arse! So if you pay for a rating at £20000 and you get a salary of £20000, you have got your money back have you? Of course not, you have worked for free for the first year plus you pay back the interest for the next few months/year. The fact that some of the airlines are asking for the cash before they will give you a job does not make it right. What it does do is encourage those out there desperate to be a pilot at any cost ruin it for the rest of the industry! It is sad that the management of these airlines have spotted the fact that for the vaste majority this career is a vocation and not a job. That there are people who will happily support them and pay to work, is why it is so hard to find that first job! So consider what the T's and C's are before jumping in with both feet or a few months later you will find yourself wishing you'd given it a little more thought!
You can imagine the thoughts going through the bank managers head as some young lad/girl sits in front of them and tries to convnce them it is a good deal to lend someone some cash to get a job!
Anyway rant over, if you want to pay for a rating be my guest, if you want to buy a job, have a go but don't try and tell me that I or anyone else should be gratefull for being offered a job providing they are happy to pay for it!
Join Date: Sep 2005
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MVE - Do you actually have a job in the industry?
At Logi you hand over £12k as a 3 year bond when you join. Every month, ON TOP OF your monthly salary, you receive 1/36th of £12k + interest to pay your loan. If you stay for three years, it costs you nothing, unless the interest rates change in which case in might cost you up to £50 or so.
Not exactly a bad deal. Now wisen up and wind your neck in.
At Logi you hand over £12k as a 3 year bond when you join. Every month, ON TOP OF your monthly salary, you receive 1/36th of £12k + interest to pay your loan. If you stay for three years, it costs you nothing, unless the interest rates change in which case in might cost you up to £50 or so.
Not exactly a bad deal. Now wisen up and wind your neck in.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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mve
Well you are, MVE, obviously not in the know as I personally went down the self-funded route and am now earning 37,500 basic salary which undeniably repays me for my initial outlay. I suggest that you look into the facts a bit more clearly before you unleash your barage of cheap swear words which only serve to make you look foolish.
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Originally Posted by DB6
wlch001, where did you get that from? I very much doubt it as it is taking the rank piss.
One has to see the exact terms of the agreement, but if you have to fork out another £20k to start a job, it is absolutely crazy! I understand why airlines would bond you over a period of time (a bit like repaying your student loan), but making you pay £20k upfront to start a job is scandalous! Would you pay £15k upfront before going to uni?
As MadBob is saying, if you accept these deals, you contribute to take the industry's T&C's down....
Last edited by Fancy Navigator; 16th Jul 2006 at 20:54.
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Strepsils and POL1W, read wlch001's posts on the last page, particularly the 'which is in no way refunded' bit, then reread MVE's. Not so foolish as far as I can see. I can't see anyone paying for a type rating on the Saab so I suspect there has been a misunderstanding somewhere.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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I will never convince someone who has got a job from one of these schemes that it is a bad move for the industry AS A WHOLE in the long run. But consider those that paid for the schemes and didn't get a job! and consider how your actions are gradually eroding the T's and C's of our industry as a whole. or does the term I'm alright jack fit?
oh and strepsils, how can it be a good deal to pay a company 12000 up front for the job? Please tell me where I can borrow 12000 over 3 years where it costs nothing? No need for cheap insults and not exactly wise of you to say so!
If more people said no to these schemes, then the 12000 would be part of the salary and not a scheme where they return your money to you! Historically a bond was where you agreed to stay for a certain amount of time to repay your training costs. Sadly with less and less people with a little honour left, companies got burnt and particularly the feeder airlines started their schemes. But lets face it, they are 10% about keeping people to their word and 90% about making money out of desperate young people desperate for the chance to start a great career. Oh and BTW I paid my bond with Virgin Atlantic by staying with them for 3.5 years before I was made redundant after Sept 11th, so I do speak with a little bit of experience!
oh and strepsils, how can it be a good deal to pay a company 12000 up front for the job? Please tell me where I can borrow 12000 over 3 years where it costs nothing? No need for cheap insults and not exactly wise of you to say so!
If more people said no to these schemes, then the 12000 would be part of the salary and not a scheme where they return your money to you! Historically a bond was where you agreed to stay for a certain amount of time to repay your training costs. Sadly with less and less people with a little honour left, companies got burnt and particularly the feeder airlines started their schemes. But lets face it, they are 10% about keeping people to their word and 90% about making money out of desperate young people desperate for the chance to start a great career. Oh and BTW I paid my bond with Virgin Atlantic by staying with them for 3.5 years before I was made redundant after Sept 11th, so I do speak with a little bit of experience!
Last edited by MVE; 17th Jul 2006 at 16:31.
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Please tell me where I can borrow 12000 over 3 years where it costs nothing?
month, ON TOP OF your monthly salary, you receive 1/36th of £12k + interest to pay your loan
Last edited by Strepsils; 18th Jul 2006 at 09:58.
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Upon further investigation I understand that people paying up front for the SF340 rating will now be the norm - apparently a precedent was set by Swedish applicant(s) who had gone to Flightsafety for the sim and offered themselves to Loganair with just the circuits and lpc/opc to complete, thereby saving the company money. I will say that the current employees who know about this are not at all impressed with the way recruitment is going at the company...
MVE - point taken, but if your loan is at 6% and the company pays you back at RBS base rate + 2% then it doesn't take much arithmetic nouse to work out that you're making money each month (just enough for a pint and a pie but better than a kick up the arse).
MVE - point taken, but if your loan is at 6% and the company pays you back at RBS base rate + 2% then it doesn't take much arithmetic nouse to work out that you're making money each month (just enough for a pint and a pie but better than a kick up the arse).
Join Date: Jan 2001
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You still havent explained where I get the 12000 to lend the company for free? Don't you pay interest for the privilage of lending them the money ie interest to the bank so why is it free? or do they pay you the interest you get charged?
If I have insulted anyone then I apologise, that wasn't my intention merely I have strong views on f£$k wits buying jobs and ruining this industry for the rest of us.....oh and apologies again if I have offended any gentle souls....
If I have insulted anyone then I apologise, that wasn't my intention merely I have strong views on f£$k wits buying jobs and ruining this industry for the rest of us.....oh and apologies again if I have offended any gentle souls....
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As long as people can get their hands on the money, they'll spend it. Whatever it takes to get ahead. Human nature, eh?
MVE, just wondering, how/where did you train? Send me a PM if you want, this is going off on a tangent.
MVE, just wondering, how/where did you train? Send me a PM if you want, this is going off on a tangent.
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freeflyingfun,
I couldn't be bothered to read all of the above, as it appears to be written by people who don't know the exact details of the agreement you have been asked to sign? No disrespect intended people, but why slag this guy/gal off? He/she only asked a simple question????
IF you are talking about Loganair, rest assured the agreement is essentially no different to most offered by other airlines (unless the FCM has changed it VERY recently and not made it public knowledge). The detail may be slightly different, but they are all much of a muchness nowadays. Personally I would rather sort out my own loans if required - not allow some airline to do it for me, whilst taking a cut out of it for themselves?
.
MY opinion of Loganair as far as this agreement goes - they are an honourable employer who will stick to their agreement.
freeflyingfun - check your PM's
I couldn't be bothered to read all of the above, as it appears to be written by people who don't know the exact details of the agreement you have been asked to sign? No disrespect intended people, but why slag this guy/gal off? He/she only asked a simple question????
IF you are talking about Loganair, rest assured the agreement is essentially no different to most offered by other airlines (unless the FCM has changed it VERY recently and not made it public knowledge). The detail may be slightly different, but they are all much of a muchness nowadays. Personally I would rather sort out my own loans if required - not allow some airline to do it for me, whilst taking a cut out of it for themselves?
.MY opinion of Loganair as far as this agreement goes - they are an honourable employer who will stick to their agreement.
freeflyingfun - check your PM's
Last edited by Machine Man; 17th Jul 2006 at 21:49.