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Freight Dogs Finally a forum for those midnight prowler types who utilise the unglamorous parts of airports that many of us never get to see. Freight Dogs is for pilots and crew who operate mostly without SLF.

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Old 9th Oct 2017, 05:24   #1 (permalink)

Probationary PPRuNer
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 2
Air Atlanta Icelandic


First post.

I have had a look at the info on ppjn regarding salary etc but I wonder if anyone can answer any of the following questions in relation to an FO position.

Worldwide contract is 3/2. So over a year that would be 10 rotations.
Are you likely to achieve that amount of work?

Salary on ppjn suggests 340usd/day plus 50usd per diem.
Is this accurate? And how is this paid? I assume that is gross and you must sort your own tax affairs depending on your domicile.

They are currently advertising for a JED base. I have found some info suggesting that you are living in a compound there. If so, what are your additional expenses whilst you are there (food, transportation etc)?

With regards to the operation itself, is it mainly Hajj flying or are there opportunities for other operations elsewhere?

And finally, in terms of long term thinking. The info I have read on PPRuNe suggests that as a contractor you can forget about achieving command and there seems to be a high turnover of crew.
What do people generally move on to and how long are people staying?

Thanks for looking.

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Old 10th Oct 2017, 11:30   #2 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: around
Posts: 205

hello SYY,
From what I heard and know,
The contract you ll get joining Air Atlanta will be worldwide meaning they call you when they need you but at this time looks good because they have lots and lots of flights.

The main customer of Air Atlanta is Saudia so the base is Jeddah but if u fly for other contract u might be based in other places for some days.

The average flying time is around 450 a year

The average starting salary is around 250 usd plus 50 per diem .
Actually there is one type of rotation 16/14 so if you do the maths, 300x16=4.8K...that's let's say if you been working 16 days.
Day off are unpaied .
Food is at your own.
Salary are gross!!! You need then to pay your taxes!!!!

I have heard of some issues pilots have had with Confair adding extra and more restrictive clauses in the contract. While Airborne Personnel does not have these issues.

When I was thinking to join, after carefully revised all I end up with one and unique conclusion: Not worth...at least for me and....that's the main reason you see this high turn over!!!

hope this helps and clarify your mind.
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Old 10th Oct 2017, 13:49   #3 (permalink)

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Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 2

Thank you for your reply to my post.

There seems to be a lack of up to date information out there at the moment.
The daily rate you quote is significantly lower than that suggested on ppjn. Perhaps it is dependent upon experience.

I am going through the same analysis as you have done and may come to the same conclusion. But for now, I will keep gathering information.

If anyone else can add to the above, please do.

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Old 11th Oct 2017, 19:40   #4 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: around
Posts: 205
The above information I gave to you are updated...
just to mention that fro the above calculated monthly gross you have to deduct not just your home taxes but as well as the Type rating ! I think around 1500 USD monthly.
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Old 18th Oct 2017, 12:03   #5 (permalink)

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The truth about AAI

I actually do the job. Here are the facts.

Use Airborne. Confair is bs and their contract is a joke. Drawn up by drunken chimpanzees.

Everybody starts on a so-called 'worldwide' contract, meaning you're available all the time unless you tell them differently. For example, with the exception of the Hajj (google it) where you're required to provide at least 75% availability, you can work as much or as little as you like. Rosters come out twice every month on the 10th/25th providing clarity from 1st-10th and 15th-31st of the month respectively. If you want to, say, work month on month off, tell them online that this is your availability and it will be respected. In essence, you can actually write your own roster. Bliss!

Non type rated guys will need to pay for their ratings. $25,000ish, with $10,000 up front (airborne) with the rest recovered at $1100/month till paid out. Very reasonable.

Traditionally, a lot of younger guys with big financial obligations and young families have found the time after Haaj difficult because they haven't been called on worldwide for, in some cases 2-3 months. This was difficult and many guys left because of it. There is a glut of B747 jobs around and people are readily taken up by other operators. AAI has put effort into addressing this and very recent developments are that there's a vibrant and growing freight operation developing out of our European bases (Belgium and Germany) and along with the now year-long Umrah (google) this now means extended periods without work is unlikely. Nominally you're based in Riyadh but will spend most of your time at a very good hotel in Jeddah. I had low expectations before arriving in Jeddah but I really like it now. I feel safer wandering around in Jeddah, day and night, than I do in Brussels or London!

Not only that, but there are also 3/2 contracts available, although it's unusual to be offered these in the first year. They provide predictable income and lifestyle and the daily rates are higher. A new thing coming is 3/3 contracts, which are lovely. Too soon to provide clarity on detail yet, but they're coming.

This is an Icelandic company and the backbone on the operation are the mainly Icelandic pilots who operate on their union negotiated contracts that are very generous. Much more generous than we contractors get. These guys are the first horses to drink, if I can put it that way, and personally I have no problem with this. There are those who object to a two tiered approach to pilots, but there are whiney, clueless dickheads everywhere in our profession, and AAI contractors are no different. The terminally aggrieved tend not to last long here, which is a self-cleaning oven in effect.

On the Icelanders, they are a great bunch of highly qualified, personable and professional airmen. The good guy to ******** ratio is excellent and the training and trainers in this company is the best I've ever had. I an NOT Icelandic but I enjoy flying with them very much. It's THEIR train set though, and if you can get your head around that without getting your panties in a wad, you'll have a very good time here.

Oh, and it's flying the Boeing 747-400, Queen of the Sky, and greatest machine ever created by the hand of man, did I mention that? This company provides opportunities to fly the queen unheard of in the rest of the world. There's good and bad in every company, but if you want to work with good guys and girls flying the greatest aircraft on earth, in a well-trained, safe and pleasant environment, this could be the job for you.

I actually do the job (captain) and absolutely love it. Best job I've ever had.
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Old 18th Oct 2017, 21:53   #6 (permalink)
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: EGHH
Posts: 31

Without meaning to cause a thread drift from the OP's initial question regarding FO recruitment, would one consider AAI a possible employer for newly qualified pilots, from both modular and integrated backgrounds?

Curious about this 'Second Officer' position they advertised for within the last year but any present information online regarding the role and its entry requirements etc. is now pretty out of date.
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