Amazon in talks to lease 20 jets to launch air cargo business
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Big Mistake. I`ll say it again , BIG MISTAKE. Amazon should have stuck with what they know and do best - internet sales. Deciding to get into the airline business not only distracts from their core business , but attracts every crook and snake oil salesman in the airline business. "Sure Amazon , we`ll help you ! , now give us some $$$$ " ...Getting a highly unionised workforce to operate (20 ) old clapped out 767-200`s , that is able to greatly leverage any future labor negotiations is foolhardy in the least. At worst , it will cost Amazon greatly.
FedEx , DHL and UPS will not say it publicly , but they won`t be taking this laying down , you can count on that. This episode in " Airline building " will be a future MBA case study in why you should not let accountants steer the strategic policy of such an internet giant.
They could have saved a billion and just asked the folks on PPRuNe !
FedEx , DHL and UPS will not say it publicly , but they won`t be taking this laying down , you can count on that. This episode in " Airline building " will be a future MBA case study in why you should not let accountants steer the strategic policy of such an internet giant.
They could have saved a billion and just asked the folks on PPRuNe !
Last edited by 6000PIC; 12th Apr 2016 at 14:58. Reason: clarification
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And another 20 767F's ......
Amazon agrees to contract 20 767 freighters from Atlas Air | Airframes content from ATWOnline
Amazon agrees to contract 20 767 freighters from Atlas Air | Airframes content from ATWOnline
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Looks like ATLAS just snaked the contract unless Amazon is doubling down on this expansion.
Amazon Partners with Atlas Air Worldwide for Cargo Services - WSJ
What is also interesting is all of these operators are heading toward a pilot strike..
DHL under fire as American pilots eye strike action over German influence on US airlines - The Loadstar
Amazon Partners with Atlas Air Worldwide for Cargo Services - WSJ
What is also interesting is all of these operators are heading toward a pilot strike..
DHL under fire as American pilots eye strike action over German influence on US airlines - The Loadstar
FYI:
First Atlas Air provided Amazon freighter due in the next quarter
Here's a pic:
"The Atlas Air provided Boeing 767-300 Freighter is the first of 40 aircraft the online retailer has agreed to lease through Atlas Air and ATSG."
http://www.aircargoweek.com/amazon-s...hter-aircraft/
First Atlas Air provided Amazon freighter due in the next quarter
Here's a pic:
"The Atlas Air provided Boeing 767-300 Freighter is the first of 40 aircraft the online retailer has agreed to lease through Atlas Air and ATSG."
http://www.aircargoweek.com/amazon-s...hter-aircraft/
Last edited by bafanguy; 5th Aug 2016 at 11:30.
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FedEx and UPS could have made a killing on this, for whatever reasons they screwed up, probably asked for too much money. They've likely created a beast, I think Amazon is going to hurt them badly in the domestic markets, eventually. The aircraft will be good for moving stuff quickly across the continent but the end-delivery process is still the weakest link in the chain in the US and Canada. Rue the day when Amazon comes up with some kind of practical scheme to deliver packages to the end user (And I'm not talking about the drone junk)
FWIW Amazon has partnerships with local carriers for end-user delivery in Japan. It's a tenuous relationship but it has held up so far, with both companies seeing benefits.
FWIW Amazon has partnerships with local carriers for end-user delivery in Japan. It's a tenuous relationship but it has held up so far, with both companies seeing benefits.
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Atlas flew the first Amazon flight (with a plane painted in the Amazon colours) a few days ago. Atlas got 20, ATSG (ABX and ATI) got 20, and I think Kalitta was offered 20, but that didn't work out...so Amazon has 20 more planes to farm out to someone.
Atlas sold its Florida West operation...that was acquired when Atlas bought Southern. FL West has it's own certificate. The rumour is Amazon bought it, so they could have their own airline...maybe they'll fly the other 20 planes themselves, with the FL West certificate...
Atlas sold its Florida West operation...that was acquired when Atlas bought Southern. FL West has it's own certificate. The rumour is Amazon bought it, so they could have their own airline...maybe they'll fly the other 20 planes themselves, with the FL West certificate...
But:
"Atlas is pleased with progress it is making in implementing a fleet of 20 Boeing 767-300 aircraft for Amazon, and its focus is on e-commerce and the express markets, rather than traditional air cargo where growth has slowed."
Atlas Air upbeat on future of air cargo as it looks to e-commerce
"Atlas is pleased with progress it is making in implementing a fleet of 20 Boeing 767-300 aircraft for Amazon, and its focus is on e-commerce and the express markets, rather than traditional air cargo where growth has slowed."
Atlas Air upbeat on future of air cargo as it looks to e-commerce
FYI:
ATI intends to hire at least 72 pilots in 2017. The hiring window is January thru March with 2 classes per month. Each class is scheduled at 12 pilots each.
Home based
First Officer new hires receive B757/767 wage rate of $76.11 per hour at a fifty-six (56) hour guarantee for a twenty-eight (28) day bid unit ($55,408 annually). This pay rate commences on the first day of training. Additionally, during training new hires receive; 1) transportation to/from home of record and the training facility, 2) per diem and 3) hotel accommodations. Second year First Officer pay increases to $82.70 per hour.
https://www.airtransport.cc/
ATI intends to hire at least 72 pilots in 2017. The hiring window is January thru March with 2 classes per month. Each class is scheduled at 12 pilots each.
Home based
First Officer new hires receive B757/767 wage rate of $76.11 per hour at a fifty-six (56) hour guarantee for a twenty-eight (28) day bid unit ($55,408 annually). This pay rate commences on the first day of training. Additionally, during training new hires receive; 1) transportation to/from home of record and the training facility, 2) per diem and 3) hotel accommodations. Second year First Officer pay increases to $82.70 per hour.
https://www.airtransport.cc/
"...why would anyone choose ATI if he had a choice? "
Intruder,
I don't really know but assume more will apply to each company than they hire...and everybody needs to go somewhere.
Is ABX all that good a gig ? They seem to have had a spot of labor "difficulty" recently. Not a good sign.
Intruder,
I don't really know but assume more will apply to each company than they hire...and everybody needs to go somewhere.
Is ABX all that good a gig ? They seem to have had a spot of labor "difficulty" recently. Not a good sign.
This is a bit of confidence in the concept shown by Amazon:
Amazon to build Cincinnati air cargo hub
Amazon to build Cincinnati air cargo hub
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Paradoxbox
FedEx did not screw up. Our margins were quite low with Amazon and was only 1.5% of our total business. The rule for Amazon is squeeze, squeeze, squeeze. That should go over really well with low paid pilots. Atlas is in a bind and if they want the Amazon business let them pass airplanes they don't have to Amazon. Their performance during our peak was to say the least not outstanding. And as for FedEx, we didn't get this big by being stupid. The good folks up at Hacks Cross already have it figured out.
FedEx did not screw up. Our margins were quite low with Amazon and was only 1.5% of our total business. The rule for Amazon is squeeze, squeeze, squeeze. That should go over really well with low paid pilots. Atlas is in a bind and if they want the Amazon business let them pass airplanes they don't have to Amazon. Their performance during our peak was to say the least not outstanding. And as for FedEx, we didn't get this big by being stupid. The good folks up at Hacks Cross already have it figured out.
"Now Atlas has to figure out how to man them. While hiring and training at a pace they cannot sustain, they are still losing net pilots..."
Intruder,
Looks like you're right. The statement below from a UPS guy on another forum giving advice to someone about jumping the gap from regional to legacy. Atlas mentioned:
"Not sure where you're at but at some point you have to think about going to Atlas or Spirit or somebody else not on your list that's a step up. I bet we hired 15 Atlas guys in the last few months..."
If I could bet on the outcome, I'd bet Atlas will fill all the seats they need to...just gonna have to "readjust" their attitude. ;-))
A P.S.
"In January 2017 alone, the pilot attrition rate at Atlas Air more than doubled compared to the monthly average for 2016, with 30 pilots leaving for other airlines and 6 pilots not showing up for their hiring class."
http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/...rced-overtime/
Intruder,
Looks like you're right. The statement below from a UPS guy on another forum giving advice to someone about jumping the gap from regional to legacy. Atlas mentioned:
"Not sure where you're at but at some point you have to think about going to Atlas or Spirit or somebody else not on your list that's a step up. I bet we hired 15 Atlas guys in the last few months..."
If I could bet on the outcome, I'd bet Atlas will fill all the seats they need to...just gonna have to "readjust" their attitude. ;-))
A P.S.
"In January 2017 alone, the pilot attrition rate at Atlas Air more than doubled compared to the monthly average for 2016, with 30 pilots leaving for other airlines and 6 pilots not showing up for their hiring class."
http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/...rced-overtime/
Last edited by bafanguy; 25th Feb 2017 at 17:01.
Bit of an update on Amazon:
According to the Houston Business Journal, the e-commerce company is currently in talks with United Airlines regarding the possible acquisition and conversion of some of its oldest passenger-configured B767s.
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/n...767s-eyes-more
According to the Houston Business Journal, the e-commerce company is currently in talks with United Airlines regarding the possible acquisition and conversion of some of its oldest passenger-configured B767s.
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/n...767s-eyes-more
