Cargolux B748 substantial structural damage
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: CGN, EDDK
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SOPMonkey:
Ok I stand corrected on that.
On first generation aircraft of the sought, we weren't hamstrung by the N1 restriction.
Ok I stand corrected on that.
On first generation aircraft of the sought, we weren't hamstrung by the N1 restriction.
All of these Boeings have a similar mechanical interlock, which prevents the reverse levers to be pulled up unless the thrust levers are in idle (and similarly prevents the thrust levers to be pushed forward unless the reverse levers are down). Another solenoid activated interlock prevents the reverser levers to be pulled above the reverse idle stop if the reversers are not fully deployed.
So you have to pull the thrust levers into idle before you can pull the reverse levers up. Additional interlocks prevent you from depoloying the reversers in the air.
Last edited by MD11Engineer; 26th Dec 2014 at 14:38. Reason: Addition
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Tree
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
main_dog
Agreed. I liked to touch down with the aircraft trimmed. Pull the power off too early and you have a nose heavy aircraft. Nothing too much wrong with that of course but doesn't help the person trying to land, if landing is the problem.
MD11
Agreed.
Agreed. I liked to touch down with the aircraft trimmed. Pull the power off too early and you have a nose heavy aircraft. Nothing too much wrong with that of course but doesn't help the person trying to land, if landing is the problem.
MD11
Agreed.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: nowhere
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not sure I agree, depends on many factors including engine type. I usually look at my speed one last time before commencing the flare and then reduce thrust accordingly, it might all come off by shortly after 30' (if, say, light weight, at or above Ref+5 and flying an engine with lots of residual thrust like the PW4062) or at the other extreme I may keep some of the thrust in until touchdown (heavy, gusty conditions and energy level low, especially on a Rolls Royce RB211 engine with its alarming lack of residual thrust).
But I have never flown the RR version. Now I wonder if that technique of having the thrust levers reach the closed position at touchdown is due to the RR version.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: earth
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I gather it was not reported by the tech crew and was checked as a result of downloading the QAR.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
About a month before this occurrence I saw a 748 also from Cargolux (don't know if it was the same aircraft) making a pretty heavy landing. You could see the tail drop in the flare and 2 huge plumes of smoke (was with a bounce) was the result. I was surpriced it left again after 2 hours which is the normal turn around time I think.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: nowhere
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Luxemburger Wort - Open-plane surgery for Cargolux Boeing
Hard landing in Libreville
Open-plane surgery for Cargolux Boeing
Repair works on a Cargolux Boeing 747 are still ongoing, with some 40 experts on site at a hangar in Findel to help get the aircraft off the ground again as quickly as possible.
According to executive vice president of maintenance and engineering Onno Pietersma, the repairs are progressing according to plan. Boeing experts, as well as local Cargolux engineers and technicians are working on the LX-VCC to repair damage suffered during a hard landing.
The incident took place in Libreville, Gabon, but the extent of the damage was not discovered until nearly two weeks later, during an inspection at the Luxembourg maintenance facilities.
The fuselage of the plane was damaged, with the aluminium shell dented in a number of places. However, the issue was not just superficial, with part of the plane's supporting structure damaged. The main landing gear on the left side also had to be removed and repaired.
The undertaking to repair this variety of issues is no easy feat. In order to transport the 747-8F to the hangar, it was equipped with the landing gear of an old 747-400F. The 76-metre long aircraft, however, did not fit fully into the maintenance hall, and a temporary extension was erected to cover its tail.
Cause of hard landing unclear
The tail fins had to be removed, as they would have been exposed to winds. Through bending forces this could have caused further damage to the hull and made repairs even more complicated.
Thirteen new hull panels need to be installed, with parts ordered from Boeing.
Most crucially, however, the plane's 12-metre keel beam, the Boeing's spine connecting the front with the tail, needs to be repaired. To allow this, the plane has been jacked up.
This also allows for repairs on the landing gear to progress. However, here the airline was faced with another problem. Normally, landing gear repairs are not needed until a plane is around 10 years old.
Because the first 747-8F model was only rolled out in 2010, there are no set procedures for maintenance. Cargolux, Boeing and maintenance and services company Revima first had to develop a new protocol.
By the end of the month, the restored landing gear is expected to be installed.
Still to be determined is where the plane will be varnished.
Also unclear at this point is the cause of the hard landing in Libreville. An investigation is ongoing, Pietersma commented. The main priority, he added, was to get the plane up and running.
“This repair is not unusual,” he said, “it is merely a very big task.”
New 747-8F joins the fleet
While one plane of its fleet is undergoing repairs, Cargolux last week welcomed its 30th Boeing from Seattle, which was greeted in Luxembourg with a traditional water cannon salute.
The LX-VCL features a portrait of Joe Sutter, in honour of the man who designed the 747 in the 1970s.
It is the 12th of 14 747-8Fs ordered by Cargolux to be delivered, and the 30th Boeing overall received by the Luxembourg freight airline in its history.
The delivery brought Cargolux's fleet up to 23 planes, also including 11 747-400Fs.
Hard landing in Libreville
Open-plane surgery for Cargolux Boeing
Repair works on a Cargolux Boeing 747 are still ongoing, with some 40 experts on site at a hangar in Findel to help get the aircraft off the ground again as quickly as possible.
According to executive vice president of maintenance and engineering Onno Pietersma, the repairs are progressing according to plan. Boeing experts, as well as local Cargolux engineers and technicians are working on the LX-VCC to repair damage suffered during a hard landing.
The incident took place in Libreville, Gabon, but the extent of the damage was not discovered until nearly two weeks later, during an inspection at the Luxembourg maintenance facilities.
The fuselage of the plane was damaged, with the aluminium shell dented in a number of places. However, the issue was not just superficial, with part of the plane's supporting structure damaged. The main landing gear on the left side also had to be removed and repaired.
The undertaking to repair this variety of issues is no easy feat. In order to transport the 747-8F to the hangar, it was equipped with the landing gear of an old 747-400F. The 76-metre long aircraft, however, did not fit fully into the maintenance hall, and a temporary extension was erected to cover its tail.
Cause of hard landing unclear
The tail fins had to be removed, as they would have been exposed to winds. Through bending forces this could have caused further damage to the hull and made repairs even more complicated.
Thirteen new hull panels need to be installed, with parts ordered from Boeing.
Most crucially, however, the plane's 12-metre keel beam, the Boeing's spine connecting the front with the tail, needs to be repaired. To allow this, the plane has been jacked up.
This also allows for repairs on the landing gear to progress. However, here the airline was faced with another problem. Normally, landing gear repairs are not needed until a plane is around 10 years old.
Because the first 747-8F model was only rolled out in 2010, there are no set procedures for maintenance. Cargolux, Boeing and maintenance and services company Revima first had to develop a new protocol.
By the end of the month, the restored landing gear is expected to be installed.
Still to be determined is where the plane will be varnished.
Also unclear at this point is the cause of the hard landing in Libreville. An investigation is ongoing, Pietersma commented. The main priority, he added, was to get the plane up and running.
“This repair is not unusual,” he said, “it is merely a very big task.”
New 747-8F joins the fleet
While one plane of its fleet is undergoing repairs, Cargolux last week welcomed its 30th Boeing from Seattle, which was greeted in Luxembourg with a traditional water cannon salute.
The LX-VCL features a portrait of Joe Sutter, in honour of the man who designed the 747 in the 1970s.
It is the 12th of 14 747-8Fs ordered by Cargolux to be delivered, and the 30th Boeing overall received by the Luxembourg freight airline in its history.
The delivery brought Cargolux's fleet up to 23 planes, also including 11 747-400Fs.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Mercer Island WA
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Time to take a breath, and step back from guessing?
Desirable or optimum thrust use or retard in flare, whether on a -100, -200, -SP, 300, -400, or -8, and regardless of engine type, ...can depend on the flight path, energy state at flare, sink rate, flare profile, atmosphere behavior, and engine/thrust state. It is true that the -8 flies just like a -400, which is why landing PACS on the -8 was so carefully worked, with the new flap configurations. However, beyond the standard FCTM landing technique guidance, one would need to see the FDR or QAR, or both, to really understand what happened, or make any reasoned assessment of what went wrong?, or went right? for any particular landing. Further, as for many big jets (without DLC, as the L1011 originally had but was later deactivated), a complicating factor can be the "Cz delta e" derivative (i.e., momentary vertical heave opposite to the control input command), which can cause a slight momentary aircraft vertical response opposite to that originally intended (e.g., a last second brisk pitch pull, to save a landing, can actually make the sink rate momentarily worse before turning the gamma corner). The reverse of this effect is also true, which is why "push landings" worked so well for some pilots on the B727. So in this instance, without both the crew statements, knowledge of the atmosphere, and the FDR traces, it is very hard and most inappropriate to pass judgement. Let's perhaps let the appropriate event investigators figure it out, and give the crew and the airline the benefit of the doubt for now?
QF years ago have a fuel saving policy of engaging revers idle only and it cost them a hull
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Mercer Island WA
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
B747 Flying Characteristics?
Having flown each of the key major 747 variants and engine combinations at some point through the -8, it is important to note that each of the B747's flying characteristics are typically observed by experienced B747 pilots as being good and well behaved. Notwithstanding any electronics flight deck differences, pilots typically note that the characteristics vary more within a particular variant, for conditions like very light weight versus heavy weight, or far forward CG versus far aft CG, or for a Vapp and approach trim theta ranging from Vref+5 to Vref +20 (depending on the atmospherics and things like G/S angle used)... rather than highlighting any potential differences between any two particular variant combinations. These observations usually apply to any recent 747 variant from minimum in-flight weight, to MTOGW, and well above MLW (as specifically assessed in some key flight tests), including even for the BCFs and LCFs.
O
ti
O
ti
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Left Coast USA
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Haven't flown the -8, but the classic and the /400 yes. For sake of ease on thread, Intruder and Md11 Engineer capsulize well.
Both variants were easy landings...as long as the radar altimeter is singing it's
Landing song.
A 3 g landing in any wide body sounds like chopping power
and flaring too high. Would love to hear from a 748 driver
to delineate further.
Safe journeys...Sushi
Both variants were easy landings...as long as the radar altimeter is singing it's
Landing song.
A 3 g landing in any wide body sounds like chopping power
and flaring too high. Would love to hear from a 748 driver
to delineate further.
Safe journeys...Sushi
