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Freight Dogs Finally a forum for those midnight prowler types who utilise the unglamorous parts of airports that many of us never get to see. Freight Dogs is for pilots and crew who operate mostly without SLF.


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Old 24th Dec 2012, 05:51   #21 (permalink)
 
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As I say centerline747, I hope that I'm wrong but even the older 747-400's are being considered too costly in China, and a swift change to 777's is happening in order to remain competitive. This applies to both cargo and pax.

P.S I am not trying to be an Airline consultant, I'm stating what appears to be the obvious. I would love an intelligent response explaining why I'm wrong.

Last edited by kungfu panda; 24th Dec 2012 at 07:11.
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Old 24th Dec 2012, 06:31   #22 (permalink)
 
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I don't wish to sound cynical but this will probably turn out to be some fly by night, new start up freight company,based in a hole and little remuneration. That's IF it ever gets off the ground.

Merry Xmas and Happy New Year!
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Old 24th Dec 2012, 08:42   #23 (permalink)
 
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PPRuNE would need a new thread "PAX Dogs".
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Old 24th Dec 2012, 13:38   #24 (permalink)
 
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Realism

Well centreline747. I actually fly the Classic, have flown and will probably fly a few more times. What Kungfu Panda says makes sense. A classic, even the newer ones, are maintenance intensive. Those with first class IFE are rare if nonexistent. Burning 12 tons an hour raises your seat per mile cost to an unacceptable level in a standard airline operation. My view is that the classic is t the end of it's road as a pax aircraft other than for a plain charter ops, Hajj from Africa on -300 or as a STBY aircraft.

To think that a first world pampered pax used to A330's B777's and the likes is going to put up with a clapped out rust bucket and sit in it for hours on end to save a few bob is delusional. It would have to be a El-Cheapo operation with lowest prices ever offered and then it would not pay for fuel and even less for the maintenance.

Just my two pence worth.
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 07:25   #25 (permalink)
 
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Have to agree with 747JJ.
747 classic is finished along with the Tristar.
Southern just grounded all of them a few weeks ago.,
Some VIP companies still operate the SP.
Venetion. pratt and whitney etc.
Veteran avia out of SHJ also with the cargo ones.
747-400 I see have 2 ready in the mid wees to be cut up and on the list.
This one becoming obsolete quick also.
What i don't understand is with the world economy in such a bad state,why really good airplanes are being cut up for scrape.
Fuel is cheap now, but we have been down that road and cheated before by the arabs.
If fuel prices increase again, costs of the new airplanes quickly overide the fuel costs.
But then the young bean counter will have already made a name for himself and moved on to rape another industry.

Last edited by Earl; 25th Dec 2012 at 07:28.
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 12:30   #26 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kungfu panda View Post
As I say centerline747, I hope that I'm wrong but even the older 747-400's are being considered too costly in China, and a swift change to 777's is happening in order to remain competitive. This applies to both cargo and pax.
But what are they going to replace all these cargo-400's with or even MD-11's. It will take a long time to build 777 freighters.

Looks like I won't have to worry about ETOPS for a while yet.
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 15:58   #27 (permalink)
 
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Jammedstab- Well the last I saw China cargo were getting rid of all their MD-11's, All of Jades 400's have been parked for most of this year, I don't know what's happening with them now. Air China Cargo have had a quiet year with the 400 and are planning a switch to the 777. You are correct though the switch takes time, particularly because of the ETOPS approvals.

I'm certain cargo and pax 400's will be around for a while, I was just saying that they are beginning to get costly and some are being replaced and parked. It is for this reason that I can't understand how a 200 PAX operation could be successful, however my youth and inexperience has been pointed out to me, so lets hope that I'm wrong.
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 18:57   #28 (permalink)
 
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Lufthansa Cargo (MD11) has already ordered 5 T7s.
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 22:03   #29 (permalink)
 
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Angel

Baltia Airlines Take 23...???
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 23:17   #30 (permalink)
 
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Ahhh yes, Baltia, a start up since 1989.....
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Old 25th Dec 2012, 23:45   #31 (permalink)
 
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Even the lowest, dodgy, fly by night pax operation can usually manage a B767. At least that will have the alphabet soup of letters required such as RNAV, TCAS, RVSM etc. Only two engines/flight crew, much easier to maintain and cheaper to run.
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Old 26th Dec 2012, 04:03   #32 (permalink)
 
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Even one of the 767 200ER is on the schedule to be chopped soon, major airline parked this.
Airplane is immaculate.
Not sure what is going on now.
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Old 2nd Jan 2013, 13:00   #33 (permalink)
 
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Any news on the so called start up?
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Old 4th Jan 2013, 17:40   #34 (permalink)
 
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No more news yet

Disappointingly there is no more "positive" update yet. They say it is still "on" but I was hoping for a little more than this; like an initial contact with with some of the potential crew members that have made enquires and a time scale for the start date. As soon as they do come up with positive news then I'll post it on here. Good luck
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Old 4th Jan 2013, 20:35   #35 (permalink)
 
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Welll...at least Georgian Star International Airlines just acquired a 747-300 as below:

Photos: Boeing 747-329M(SF) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
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Old 4th Jan 2013, 22:43   #36 (permalink)
 
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Ahhhh...the 747-300 . . . .easily the best 747 model, from the point of view of the crew.

Though, from an operators viewpoint, maybe a little expensive to operate. But when the hire costs are so low, there is room for those additional costs.
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Old 4th Jan 2013, 22:44   #37 (permalink)
 
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Georgian Star International - can it more dodgy than that?
As much as I love 747, it is over. Even 747-400 are no longer the airplane of choice.
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