747-8F - does it match the hype?
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2 Whites 2 Reds
Since when DHL Express or Deutsche Post become a freighter operator? Don't mix one of their units actually operates a fleet to serve the group's traffic with making money from that.
DHL is a mail, freight forwarder and express parcel company, it can get a rid of airline tomorrow, substitute all capacity with subchapter and they still will be a fine and profitable business. Now, how many days EAT, DHL Air and Co will survive if they become an open market freight carrier?
Same goes for FedEx, UPS, TNT etc.
Since when DHL Express or Deutsche Post become a freighter operator? Don't mix one of their units actually operates a fleet to serve the group's traffic with making money from that.
DHL is a mail, freight forwarder and express parcel company, it can get a rid of airline tomorrow, substitute all capacity with subchapter and they still will be a fine and profitable business. Now, how many days EAT, DHL Air and Co will survive if they become an open market freight carrier?
Same goes for FedEx, UPS, TNT etc.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Button Moon
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cargo One....
As you rightly say, Deutsche Post could indeed dispose of all of it's in-house flying ie DHL Air and EAT and still make money. But having recently spent $1bn on 6 new 767's straight off the production line, it's not likely. There are already a number of external carrier's operating for us but the group make vast amounts of profit from the ability to get things from one country to another in a timely fashion. Whilst we would all like a copy of 'The Big Picture', I can only assume that there is a worthy benefit to operating our own aircraft or the company woud simply use the external carrier's.
To cut a long story short, DP makes HUGE profits and largely thanks to it's airline business which, as you correctly say, is in itself a tool to facilitate the overall operation.
As you rightly say, Deutsche Post could indeed dispose of all of it's in-house flying ie DHL Air and EAT and still make money. But having recently spent $1bn on 6 new 767's straight off the production line, it's not likely. There are already a number of external carrier's operating for us but the group make vast amounts of profit from the ability to get things from one country to another in a timely fashion. Whilst we would all like a copy of 'The Big Picture', I can only assume that there is a worthy benefit to operating our own aircraft or the company woud simply use the external carrier's.
To cut a long story short, DP makes HUGE profits and largely thanks to it's airline business which, as you correctly say, is in itself a tool to facilitate the overall operation.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: earth
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dalsey, Hillblom and Lynn. Better known as Dewy, Hewy and Lewy fell hind tit to FedEx in the US market and the brand was bought by DP later bullied out of the US market giving it a still profitable but restricted global market. They know their limits and will operate within them.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2 Whites 2 Reds
Just my personal opinion, all big express parcel companies can get more profit by outsourcing airlift, at least in Europe.
However the initial point was that there are few to none freighter operators who making profits at the moment and for sure DHL & Co are doing their profits not from freighter operations as such. To give you an example, BP and Shell have business jets and making a multi-billion profits while NetJets is struggling. Why would be that?
Just my personal opinion, all big express parcel companies can get more profit by outsourcing airlift, at least in Europe.
However the initial point was that there are few to none freighter operators who making profits at the moment and for sure DHL & Co are doing their profits not from freighter operations as such. To give you an example, BP and Shell have business jets and making a multi-billion profits while NetJets is struggling. Why would be that?
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: earth
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
However the initial point was that there are few to none freighter operators who making profits at the moment and for sure DHL & Co are doing their profits not from freighter operations as such. To give you an example, BP and Shell have business jets and making a multi-billion profits while NetJets is struggling. Why would be that?
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eurozone
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE]Not sure an airplane would actually get certified if its engines "shut themselves down if they don't like it"!!! I presume you're talking about shutting down during an autostart rather than inflight! Autostart is nothing new on Boeings or Airbus though is it??/QUOTE]
Just in case I didn't make myself clear, I was of course, alluding to the ground autostart feature!
If the engines were capable of shutting down in flight with no prior warning the aircraft would certainly not be certified. Any pilot voluntarily operating an aircraft so equipped probably would be certified and quite possibly sectioned as well.
Just in case I didn't make myself clear, I was of course, alluding to the ground autostart feature!
If the engines were capable of shutting down in flight with no prior warning the aircraft would certainly not be certified. Any pilot voluntarily operating an aircraft so equipped probably would be certified and quite possibly sectioned as well.
then I can post some flight deck pics of the new displays and systems Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Garden shed
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Zeddb and Siberfuchs,
Those revues are pretty much what I think about it too.
Very accurate descriptions and I can only agree on the lag on rotation issue.
VNAV has calculated some outrages paths for the descent, but as you said, a lot of it is down to ATC clearances and FMC modifications to the STAR or when on vectors. The suggested Flap configuration points are great, but they are definitely on the "sporty" side if you are light, and if you get any shortcuts to final, you may end up in a pickle :-)
Most noticeable is the lack of engine noise, especially in landing configuration.
The leading edges seem to cover any engine noise with their own.
Overall thou it seems quieter than the -400. Except for the damn galley chiller that is, which also has a mind of its own
Those revues are pretty much what I think about it too.
Very accurate descriptions and I can only agree on the lag on rotation issue.
VNAV has calculated some outrages paths for the descent, but as you said, a lot of it is down to ATC clearances and FMC modifications to the STAR or when on vectors. The suggested Flap configuration points are great, but they are definitely on the "sporty" side if you are light, and if you get any shortcuts to final, you may end up in a pickle :-)
Most noticeable is the lack of engine noise, especially in landing configuration.
The leading edges seem to cover any engine noise with their own.
Overall thou it seems quieter than the -400. Except for the damn galley chiller that is, which also has a mind of its own
Mistrust in Management
The approach logic has been changed to something called Integrated Approach Navigation (IAN). What this means is that as long as an approach is in the FMC, all you have to do is select APPROACH and you are basically flying an ILS regardless of whether it is LNAV/VNAV, ILS, VOR or whatever. RNP scales appear on the PFD to show you where you are in relation to lateral and vertical profiles. Sounds complex but it makes life easier. There is a brand new radar which you basically leave in AUTO and it does everything for you.
The auto function on the wx radar may be great on this new aircraft. On our old 73 NG's I find it to be very good in clb and crz but hopeless in descent - in descent the ground returns obscure potential wx hazards so I have to switch to manual tilt.
Regards
Exeng
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I guess, with the ground autostart - quote "now the autostart on the -8 is completely independent. i.e, it monitors everything with no exeptions and does everything."..........I'm thinking this new space-age system has now been developed to the stage where it is almost as good as the 742 autostart system, but certainly not as reliable....and I have much experience in this area!
EW73
EW73
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ask Crew Control
Age: 47
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thoroughly enjoyed my training flight up to PVG on it. I totally agree with the points on reduced engine noise, complications with the Vnav and especially the attitude in the flare!!! It seemed flatter and de rotated so quickly I nearly didn't catch it. My only concern was its comfort in turbulence. We went though some bumps both cloud and clear air and I thought it was rough as old guts.....not that the boxes mind. Oh quickly forgot not fiddling with the tilt on the radar is a habit I must refrain from!!!
The Cav
The Cav
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great plane, although taking a bit of getting used to not being able to hear the engines on final approach mainly due to the odd hurricane that rushes through the cockpit. I do believe the air con is being looked at though so that will hopefully be solved. As mentioned, the upper deck is a real let down. Wish they had consulted a few pilots. Just a few small changes could make a great plane a totally awesome one.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Greater Aldergrove
Age: 52
Posts: 851
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've been flying it since November and it's burning 2-3% less fuel than Mr Boeing promised
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eurozone
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I never flew the "classic" but the autostart system on the-8 works fine. As did the one on the -400. Did exactly what it said on the tin.
To be honest, in 10 years flying the Jumbo and far too long flying other Boeing and Airbus products, I never had any problems with the motors. But then I have always had GE's hanging off the wings. The only donk I ever saw problems with was made by RR/BMW. And that wasn't a very serious one.
Just my own personal experience. The BA777/Quantas A380 crews may feel somewhat different.
The fuel burn with the Gnex is pretty good although that may have something to do with the new wing as well.
To be honest, in 10 years flying the Jumbo and far too long flying other Boeing and Airbus products, I never had any problems with the motors. But then I have always had GE's hanging off the wings. The only donk I ever saw problems with was made by RR/BMW. And that wasn't a very serious one.
Just my own personal experience. The BA777/Quantas A380 crews may feel somewhat different.
The fuel burn with the Gnex is pretty good although that may have something to do with the new wing as well.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: warwickshire
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've been flying it since November and it's burning 2-3% less fuel than Mr Boeing promised...and its my understanding that Boeing are taking more weight out of it?
I think what he meant to say is that :now the autostart on the -8 is completely independant. i.e ,it monitors everything with no exeptions and does everything. There is not such thing as a manual start now on the -8 compared to the -400
This, coupled with the official policy of no overlapping starts, (i.e have to wait till each engine was stable before starting the next) used to drive ATC (and other operators) crazy during pushback. Eventually, we resorted to the obvious--unofficial overlapping starts (not quite 2 at a time, a la Airbus, but almost) which speeded things up quite a bit.
Then the "powers that be" saw the light and incorporated it into the SOP's, and eveyone was happy.
