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Freight Dogs Finally a forum for those midnight prowler types who utilise the unglamorous parts of airports that many of us never get to see. Freight Dogs is for pilots and crew who operate mostly without SLF.


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Old 3rd Mar 2012, 17:20   #21 (permalink)
 
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2 Whites 2 Reds

Since when DHL Express or Deutsche Post become a freighter operator? Don't mix one of their units actually operates a fleet to serve the group's traffic with making money from that.

DHL is a mail, freight forwarder and express parcel company, it can get a rid of airline tomorrow, substitute all capacity with subchapter and they still will be a fine and profitable business. Now, how many days EAT, DHL Air and Co will survive if they become an open market freight carrier?

Same goes for FedEx, UPS, TNT etc.
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Old 3rd Mar 2012, 22:41   #22 (permalink)
 
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Cargo One....

As you rightly say, Deutsche Post could indeed dispose of all of it's in-house flying ie DHL Air and EAT and still make money. But having recently spent $1bn on 6 new 767's straight off the production line, it's not likely. There are already a number of external carrier's operating for us but the group make vast amounts of profit from the ability to get things from one country to another in a timely fashion. Whilst we would all like a copy of 'The Big Picture', I can only assume that there is a worthy benefit to operating our own aircraft or the company woud simply use the external carrier's.

To cut a long story short, DP makes HUGE profits and largely thanks to it's airline business which, as you correctly say, is in itself a tool to facilitate the overall operation.
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Old 4th Mar 2012, 04:58   #23 (permalink)
 
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Dalsey, Hillblom and Lynn. Better known as Dewy, Hewy and Lewy fell hind tit to FedEx in the US market and the brand was bought by DP later bullied out of the US market giving it a still profitable but restricted global market. They know their limits and will operate within them.
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Old 4th Mar 2012, 07:25   #24 (permalink)
 
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Just my personal opinion, all big express parcel companies can get more profit by outsourcing airlift, at least in Europe.

However the initial point was that there are few to none freighter operators who making profits at the moment and for sure DHL & Co are doing their profits not from freighter operations as such. To give you an example, BP and Shell have business jets and making a multi-billion profits while NetJets is struggling. Why would be that?
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Old 5th Mar 2012, 01:46   #25 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
However the initial point was that there are few to none freighter operators who making profits at the moment and for sure DHL & Co are doing their profits not from freighter operations as such. To give you an example, BP and Shell have business jets and making a multi-billion profits while NetJets is struggling. Why would be that?
WTF The largest global companies (freighter operators) as you call them are all well in the black, hardly phased by the recent recession. In what logic do you compare oil companies (deep pockets) who could probably fly NetJet's fleet at a complete loss and not have it make a dent in their profit margin's to net jet's? Sir your logic, I do not follow,
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Old 5th Mar 2012, 05:35   #26 (permalink)
 
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[QUOTE]Not sure an airplane would actually get certified if its engines "shut themselves down if they don't like it"!!! I presume you're talking about shutting down during an autostart rather than inflight! Autostart is nothing new on Boeings or Airbus though is it??/QUOTE]

Just in case I didn't make myself clear, I was of course, alluding to the ground autostart feature!

If the engines were capable of shutting down in flight with no prior warning the aircraft would certainly not be certified. Any pilot voluntarily operating an aircraft so equipped probably would be certified and quite possibly sectioned as well.
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Old 5th Mar 2012, 09:29   #27 (permalink)
 
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If someone can tell me an easy way to post pics on here without opening my own website then I can post some flight deck pics of the new displays and systems
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Old 5th Mar 2012, 09:36   #28 (permalink)
 
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Zeddb,
Nice review but very interested in you comment about lag during rotation.
At D2 & hi assumed temp I think it lags just as much as a -400 and can 'feel' very heavy....almost like you are hauling it off the ground.
The 1st time I experienced it my inital thought was the V speeds were too low (or we'd made an error)

I agree, it is lovely to land and crisp in roll dirty or clean.
I thought the ERF was a joy after the -400....but the -8 takes the cake.

With a forward CofG it still lands well...but, again, can feel heavy & you never feel you got to a proper flared attitude. In this case it de-rotates very quickly & the nose wheel is down before you can catch it.

Of note is that at very very light weights, where the -400 almost refuses to land, the -8 doesn't float (despite the wing). In fact at v low weights and F30 it seems to be hanging off the flaps (much like a Cessna). It doesn't feel like an Airliner at all.

For those that haven't flown it, for the same AUW, Vapp is 6-7kts less than the -400.

Most importantly......it makes money.
I've been flying it since November and it's burning 2-3% less fuel than Mr Boeing promised...and its my understanding that Boeing are taking more weight out of it?

Staying in VNAV PATH on descent is a bit of a pain but not a show stopper.
I was recently given a full procedural approach from 14,000ft and just let the -8 do her thing, that's where VNAV PATH excelled.

She's designed to be soooo efficient but somebody forgot to tell ATC
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Old 5th Mar 2012, 10:14   #29 (permalink)
 
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Zeddb and Siberfuchs,

Those revues are pretty much what I think about it too.

Very accurate descriptions and I can only agree on the lag on rotation issue.

VNAV has calculated some outrages paths for the descent, but as you said, a lot of it is down to ATC clearances and FMC modifications to the STAR or when on vectors. The suggested Flap configuration points are great, but they are definitely on the "sporty" side if you are light, and if you get any shortcuts to final, you may end up in a pickle :-)

Most noticeable is the lack of engine noise, especially in landing configuration.
The leading edges seem to cover any engine noise with their own.
Overall thou it seems quieter than the -400. Except for the damn galley chiller that is, which also has a mind of its own
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Old 15th Mar 2012, 00:17   #30 (permalink)
 
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Away from the flying stuff....(admin)

1. Galley chiller whines like a gas turbine engine winding up (with no fuel flow)

2. The hot water tap, in the galley, is not above the sink so water splashes everywhere

3. In our jets the 2 x 406 Locator beacons are not only placed within 4inches of each other (that alone is a massive design error)....but they are also mounted in an almost inaccessible position between the fuselage & locker area.
At a bare minimum the beacons should not be co-located. This is a safety issue.

4. Does the toilet door really need 3 blow out panels? The curry is good in India but not that explosive

5. Bunks are OK but once again the Freighter crews got short changed....why couldn't they provide the NASA memory foam that the 777 bunks have?
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Old 15th Mar 2012, 01:20   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
The approach logic has been changed to something called Integrated Approach Navigation (IAN). What this means is that as long as an approach is in the FMC, all you have to do is select APPROACH and you are basically flying an ILS regardless of whether it is LNAV/VNAV, ILS, VOR or whatever. RNP scales appear on the PFD to show you where you are in relation to lateral and vertical profiles. Sounds complex but it makes life easier. There is a brand new radar which you basically leave in AUTO and it does everything for you.
My experience of IAN (albeit in a 737 NG) has 99% of the time been good. However it can kill you as I am sure you are aware. It is only as good as the database provided. If it is wrong then all bets are off. I would never rely on it as a stand alone system. Every time the database is changed there is the potential for errors.

The auto function on the wx radar may be great on this new aircraft. On our old 73 NG's I find it to be very good in clb and crz but hopeless in descent - in descent the ground returns obscure potential wx hazards so I have to switch to manual tilt.


Regards
Exeng
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Old 15th Mar 2012, 02:54   #32 (permalink)
 
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I guess, with the ground autostart - quote "now the autostart on the -8 is completely independent. i.e, it monitors everything with no exeptions and does everything."..........I'm thinking this new space-age system has now been developed to the stage where it is almost as good as the 742 autostart system, but certainly not as reliable....and I have much experience in this area!

EW73
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Old 15th Mar 2012, 09:18   #33 (permalink)
 
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Brilliant ! only defects with that system was the coffee bag consumption......
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Old 28th Mar 2012, 13:10   #34 (permalink)
 
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I thoroughly enjoyed my training flight up to PVG on it. I totally agree with the points on reduced engine noise, complications with the Vnav and especially the attitude in the flare!!! It seemed flatter and de rotated so quickly I nearly didn't catch it. My only concern was its comfort in turbulence. We went though some bumps both cloud and clear air and I thought it was rough as old guts.....not that the boxes mind. Oh quickly forgot not fiddling with the tilt on the radar is a habit I must refrain from!!!

The Cav
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Old 29th Mar 2012, 19:37   #35 (permalink)
 
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Great plane, although taking a bit of getting used to not being able to hear the engines on final approach mainly due to the odd hurricane that rushes through the cockpit. I do believe the air con is being looked at though so that will hopefully be solved. As mentioned, the upper deck is a real let down. Wish they had consulted a few pilots. Just a few small changes could make a great plane a totally awesome one.
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Old 29th Mar 2012, 20:02   #36 (permalink)
 
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I've been flying it since November and it's burning 2-3% less fuel than Mr Boeing promised
Given that the GenX hasn't yet delivered on it's original promises, that is impressive...
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 16:15   #37 (permalink)
 
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I never flew the "classic" but the autostart system on the-8 works fine. As did the one on the -400. Did exactly what it said on the tin.

To be honest, in 10 years flying the Jumbo and far too long flying other Boeing and Airbus products, I never had any problems with the motors. But then I have always had GE's hanging off the wings. The only donk I ever saw problems with was made by RR/BMW. And that wasn't a very serious one.

Just my own personal experience. The BA777/Quantas A380 crews may feel somewhat different.

The fuel burn with the Gnex is pretty good although that may have something to do with the new wing as well.
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Old 5th Apr 2012, 07:34   #38 (permalink)
 
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Thanks to the guys in the know for takng time to give us some answer and an insight. Much apprciated!
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Old 6th Apr 2012, 08:33   #39 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I've been flying it since November and it's burning 2-3% less fuel than Mr Boeing promised...and its my understanding that Boeing are taking more weight out of it?
Which figure is that based on, the EIS figure, or the original figures given some time ago?
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Old 6th Apr 2012, 19:00   #40 (permalink)
 
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I think what he meant to say is that :now the autostart on the -8 is completely independant. i.e ,it monitors everything with no exeptions and does everything. There is not such thing as a manual start now on the -8 compared to the -400
Ahh yes; good old days. Hardest part of 744 sim could be "start faults"-(18, as I recalled). No autostart on our machines in those days, even though it came as standard on the later model-400. Management had them removed from the new deliveries (apparently to maintain fleet standardisation).

This, coupled with the official policy of no overlapping starts, (i.e have to wait till each engine was stable before starting the next) used to drive ATC (and other operators) crazy during pushback. Eventually, we resorted to the obvious--unofficial overlapping starts (not quite 2 at a time, a la Airbus, but almost) which speeded things up quite a bit.

Then the "powers that be" saw the light and incorporated it into the SOP's, and eveyone was happy.
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