BlenderPilot

NTSB and FAA Investigators have disclosed after hearing the CVR of USA Jet Airways DC-9 N199US that crashed on final approach to Saltillo Mexico, that a Racial Dispute took place between the Pilot and Copilot briefly before landing, it was specifically mentioned that there were racial slurs, and a brief struggle took place amongst pilots to handle the aircraft during the final approach phase, there are several youtube videos were you can see the aircraft rock it's wings 45+ degrees just a few feet off the ground.

Anybody have anymore information?

http://www.zocalo.com.mx/seccion/art...a-el-avionazo/

Google Translation . . . . .

Translation: Spanish » English

Litigation in the cabin causes avionazo
For Drafting
02/09/2008 - 06:19 AM
Saltillo, Coah .- An explosion of racial hatred on board the cabin (the pilot was white, the black co-pilot) avionazo culminated in the DC-9 U.S. Jet Airlines dawn on July 6 in the Libramiento Lopez Portillo, Ramos Arizpe.

The recordings contained in the "black box" of the aircraft give verbal evidence of the lawsuit, shouts and manotazos between the pilot and co-pilot from taking off in Detroit, Michigan.

The pilot John McKintosh, who died at the scene of the accident, was white, while the co-pilot, James Christopher Martins, who suffered burns and injuries that were treated in the Hospital Muguerza here in Saltillo, is black.

IN festering whole journey

The racial bitterness broke out in the cabin of the jet, and was increased along the seven hour flight, said a source credible that had access to the recordings.

Already in the vicinity of Saltillo, the intensity of the litigation between the pilot and copilot white black was such that the plane-and-out of control could have collapsed anywhere, the source explained. Fortunately, the device fell on the Libramiento and only took a life, the pilot McKintosh.

Investigators from the Federal Aviation Agency of the United States and the Directorate of Civil Aviation of Mexico left Saltillo as heard recordings that gave testimony to the cause of the accident.

Background accident

On Sunday, July 6 at 01:18 pm, the DC-9 jet plunged to the height of 3 km Libramiento Lopez Portillo, back to the airport plan Guadeloupe, where he intended landing.

The aircraft, loaded with automotive components of Magna Power Train, broke in two on contact with the pavement and then exploded.

The plane started its journey in Detroit, where the company owns the aircraft.

It continued to Hamil, Canada, stopped in Clifford, Louisiana and cascaded toward Saltillo.

No one imagined what was happening in the cabin, nor the consequences.

icarus sun

I wonder if this is the first accident of this sort?

ATPMBA

That is sad.

I'm sure the FAA will have some new training requirements come from this accident.

Dengue_Dude

Well obviously the CRM failed on this one.

I do wish the authorities would realise that ramming CRM courses down aircrews' throats doesn't make one jot of difference.

Those most in need of practising it DON'T, yet I bet their currency was up to date. Most of us who believe in it (despite all the name changes over the years) practise it anyway, we always did.

Worst thing is that most companies know who these people are but don't take action because otherwise (if they're not careful) THEY can be prosecuted for harassment and the like as most of these things are based in hearsay (but no less accurate for that).

So really, this is another Human Factors accident and quite frankly an impossible position for just about all those involved (the live ones anyway).

CRM is assessed in OPC/LPCs these days. Is there any evidence that crew have been suspended (not hanged) because their CRM was not up to an acceptable standard?

It would be an interesting exercise for the competent authorities NTSB / AAIB inspectors to peruse the relevant personal documentation.

gooneydog

The source is a Mexican trash publication. FAA has said absolutely no such thing. I Know this crew personally and was a friend of the captain and what is written here is lies

flite idol

Mexican tabloid garbage!!!!Totally made up carp!

SW_US

These are false allegations.

7 hour CVR? Please.


the moderators on this website should remove such racially charged lies

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthr...114475&page=13

A37575

Agree. Some characters will never change although they talk the CRM talk but then ignore it in reality.

Dengue_Dude

I truly believe that the reason we all do CRM is for the benefit of the companies we work for.

Because of vicarious liability, the company can say - we qualified the crews in all the latest aspects of CRM and therefore discharged our responsibilities.

In fairness, they can't do any more. Sad fact is, humans are annoyingly human and thus we can all talk the talk, but not walk the walk if it doesn't suit us.

So, I truly have sympathy for the bosses, they can't win for losing. The only real option is 'spies in the cab' cameras and I don't want to even THINK about that route.

Fly safe guys.

flapassym

I try to make this point on every CRM course I do. The people most in need of practising it but don't are actually management's problem. But despite management being in attendance on these courses they choose the teflon/coke bottle shoulders/ostrich option and do the square root of f*ck all about it !

WhaleDriver

I was involved in an incident in the '80's where they wanted to know how an approach to the incident airport went the prior day, with the same crew. They were able to get thirty hours of very clear voice off the thirty minute tape. When it's recorded, it is done over the last recording, not erasing it. It was costly, but I was very impressed with the quality, and this was back in the '80's.

PPRuNe Towers

I believe the record was set in a SoCal lab that got distinguishable voices from the 14th overwritten layer of a 2 hour format CVR.

Rob

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Regards from the Towers