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Freight Dogs Finally a forum for those midnight prowler types who utilise the unglamorous parts of airports that many of us never get to see. Freight Dogs is for pilots and crew who operate mostly without SLF.

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Old 29th Jul 2008, 12:13   #81 (permalink)
 
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glh carl,
there is a big difference between a skin and a plank,any electra engineer knows that the wing is not of the usual airliner constuction,these planks have had a corrosion problem. Because the planks are much thicker than your average wing skin they have a much greater stuctural load,the corresponding spars & stringers are lighter,an engineering trade off,whilst it is not economical or practical to reskin an airliner wing,many electras have had their wings replanked.
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Old 29th Jul 2008, 15:34   #82 (permalink)
 
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Saffron:
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there is a big difference between a skin and a plank,any electra engineer knows that the wing is not of the usual airliner constuction,these planks have had a corrosion problem. Because the planks are much thicker than your average wing skin they have a much greater stuctural load,the corresponding spars & stringers are lighter,an engineering trade off,whilst it is not economical or practical to reskin an airliner wing,many electras have had their wings replanked
The Electra wing planks as you call then are the wing skins. Large aircraft wing skins range in thickness from 1/4" to 3/4" and are machined from large planks of aluminum. If I remember correctly the Electra planks are 1/4" to 3/8" thick from inboard to outboard. As for the corrosion problems, name me one Lockheed aircraft that hasn't had wing corrosion problems?

Again I ask you to name me one large aircraft that doesn't use machined planks as wing skins?

By the way one of my job at Lockheed, for a short period of time, was at the Electra desk in the product support center.
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Old 29th Jul 2008, 20:35   #83 (permalink)
 
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Wing Planks

The L188 wing is an extreme example of the use of milled skin. The planks were hogged out to on the inside to include integral risers (stiffeners) by giant milling machines and then stretched to removed the warping this induced. I worked Electras at Lockheed New York during Project Uptilt which changed the angle at which the engines were mounted to the wing to reduce the horrendous vibration. Of course, they then required later reworks of the engine mounts and wing due to the whirl mode failures causing loss of several aircraft.
Later I was at EAL at JFK on the Electra phase check line. Lockheed rep told us that they had found milled risers cracking off the planks, in some cases as much as 30-feet - that is feet - these were on some foreign reg aircraft whose owners didn't believe in inspection.
The EAL Electras had doubler patches all over the wings and inside the dry bays the landing gear trusses which were forgings had a lot of repairs as well. Only the small need apply to get into the little access door in the trailing edge.
When I was acting manager at DCA I escorted a Navy P3 squadron commander out to look at an Electra - (the predecessor of his aircraft).
His comment, on seeing all the doubler and tripler repairs on the wings was, "Holy Sh--t, it must have done thirty missions over Hanoi." He couldn't believe all the patches.
At Newark in late 70's, Zantop asked to borrow our hangar to repair an Electra - they were fueling it and had noticed a waterfall coming out from under one wing - one plank had actually broken right across. Completely severed. It took a very large triple-layered repair taking a couple of weeks to engineer and install.
So keep a very close eye on your structure.
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Old 29th Jul 2008, 22:58   #84 (permalink)
 
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tonytech2,

Thank you, you did a lot better job describing the Electra's milled wing plank than I did.
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Old 30th Jul 2008, 16:58   #85 (permalink)
 
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This company is advertising a L.188 flight simulator for sale.

Retro Aviation
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Old 31st Jul 2008, 05:55   #86 (permalink)
 
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Go and look at the military section at Airline Pilot Central, there is a thread on a P3 that survived a 5 turn spin from 5,500ft and some interesting photos of what the wing survived and still got the guys home.
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Old 31st Jul 2008, 19:20   #87 (permalink)
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Latest news.
Electra is out due to really far advanced corrosion.
What is in?

Valsan modified B727.
Three aircraft planned.
Advertising for crews will begin in due course.
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Old 1st Aug 2008, 00:08   #88 (permalink)
 
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727 startup those days? Is that for cocaine or diamonds traffic?
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Old 1st Aug 2008, 04:52   #89 (permalink)
 
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So if I come over onto the 72, what are the chances of eventually moving to the L10?
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Old 1st Aug 2008, 05:33   #90 (permalink)
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So if I come over onto the 72, what are the chances of eventually moving to the L10?
Possible...however, the B767 is a better possibility.
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Old 1st Aug 2008, 05:34   #91 (permalink)
 
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" Valsan modified B727.
Three aircraft planned.
Advertising for crews will begin in due course."

Please make yourselves comfortable Ladies and Gentlemen, the first flights for Walter Mitty Airlines are preparing for takeoff
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Old 1st Aug 2008, 07:04   #92 (permalink)
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Ah Man!

I was getting my hopes up on the L188. really bummed. 727 it is then. I figured it would be hard to get the old girl flying again. Sad really.
 
Old 1st Aug 2008, 08:31   #93 (permalink)
 
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An old report on the Valsan conversion for those of us less familiar with it.

BUSINESS TECHNOLOGY: Advances; Rebuilding Planes to Cut Airport Noise - New York Times
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Old 1st Aug 2008, 18:24   #94 (permalink)
 
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Hey 411A what about the L1011F

There's 2 on the market
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Old 1st Aug 2008, 21:02   #95 (permalink)
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Hey 411A what about the L1011F
There's 2 on the market
Even more, actually, however...the airplane is too large for our (present) proposed freight operation and...they are owned by an absolute d*ckhead which we will absolutely not do business with, under any circumstances..
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Old 2nd Aug 2008, 17:34   #96 (permalink)
 
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No the 2 available are now not owned by said "d...head"
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Old 2nd Aug 2008, 18:21   #97 (permalink)
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...the 2 available are now not owned by said "d...head"
Oh yes, now I remember, yes these are available.
I will check and find out, as it might be viable, if the volume of uplift is as anticipated...our guy in LIS is checking on this now.
We are attempting to combine this project with a north American one, to make it more attractive to additional investors.
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Old 2nd Aug 2008, 18:37   #98 (permalink)
 
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411A

It is indeed a sad day to hear that you are moving to a Boeing product.
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Old 2nd Aug 2008, 23:57   #99 (permalink)
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It is indeed a sad day to hear that you are moving to a Boeing product.
Fuel costs call the tune.
Now, having said this, the Electra might yet get a second chance, if the corrosion and wiring issues can be overcome.
Not sure yet, still under intense discussion.
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Old 3rd Aug 2008, 04:45   #100 (permalink)
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Smile Yeah

I am keeping my fingers crossed! Where are these L188's out of curiosity? And is that sim in Seattle still working???
 
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