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Freight Dogs Finally a forum for those midnight prowler types who utilise the unglamorous parts of airports that many of us never get to see. Freight Dogs is for pilots and crew who operate mostly without SLF.


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Old 28th Feb 2008, 01:01   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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DHL/ATLAS/POLAR Connection?

Noted a number of DHL threads on 777 and 767. I guess you can add the 747-400 to it. Looks like DHL has awarded two contracts to Polar which will be flown by Atlas crews and aircraft. Just got this today via the union mass mail.

Here is the pdf file to the unions on it that was sent around.

https://crewroom.alpa.org/AAI072/Des...cumentID=42148
nitty-gritty is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2008, 12:33   #2 (permalink)
 
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It's actually DHL Cargo - and point of fact is that none of it belongs to, is consigned to, consigned for, or otherwise involves the Altas or Polar pilots.
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Old 28th Feb 2008, 14:18   #3 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trashhauler
And Atlas doesn't fly Polar cargo. Riiiiiiight!
Let me get this strait. It's OK for Polar to get the DHL contract that was being flown by Northwest Airlines and crews. Then under the Polar World Wide Holdings deal with DHL, Polar is awarded it with full knowledge that some of it was to be flown by Atlas under the alliance. When that same flying is then redirected to Atlas only, before even one box shows up on a Polar A/C, it is a sin against all human kind? So It's GOOD for Polar to fly it and bad if Atlas does it instead?
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Old 28th Feb 2008, 16:20   #4 (permalink)
 
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"Polar / Atlas . . . .have entered into a new Alliance agreement".

Was not the old Polar/Atlas alliance agreement terminated on 06/07 of last year, so that the Holden arbitration award (with regards to Polar's downgraded Captains and "paid to stay at home" FE's) could be mitigated?
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Old 28th Feb 2008, 16:33   #5 (permalink)
 
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L38 -
Polar has no freight. It belongs to the customer - in this case DHL. However, following your logic, if Polar did "have" freight it would belong to AAWH who owns Polar. And it is their right to put it on whichever of their business units they think will most efficiently serve the customer.

The old alliance agreement was terminated because AAWH wrongly furloughed Polar FE's during the time period the alliance agreement was in effect. In this case, no Polar pilots have been furloughed so an alliance agreement is within the confines of the Polar CBA.

I doubt that the Polar crewmembers have ever been more valuable to management than the brand name. I think ALL brand names are more valuable to the managers of those airlines (whether freight or passenger) than the pilots who crew them. That's just the reality of the airline world today.
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Old 28th Feb 2008, 17:31   #6 (permalink)
 
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Whale
Hopefully the next time AAWH lands a big ACMI contract they won't decide the customer will be better served by subcontracting it out to Connie or Evergeen.
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Old 28th Feb 2008, 17:42   #7 (permalink)
 
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I agree. But that has been done before and I am sure will continue to be an option for management. Hopefully, if they feel the need to contract out some of the flying, they will keep it in house.

AAWH has used Southern, Evergreen, and many others to supplement their contracts during heavy maintenance times or transition times. If you have been around this business any length of time you know how incestuous it is. Sure seems like it would be smarter to have a group of business units (that could get along) that could supplement and augment each other.
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Old 28th Feb 2008, 17:47   #8 (permalink)
 
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Hard to convince a pilot group that is 50% smaller and has 50 % less aircraft, that the company has a need to supplement its lift.
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Old 28th Feb 2008, 18:02   #9 (permalink)
 
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You are right it probably is. But it seems that DHL wanted two more aircraft; and wanted them right now. AAWH has some more aircraft. Did you just expect them to give those aircraft to the Polar group to fly because you have been so nice and cooperative about the merger?

To me, the message here is clear. If the Polar pilots want access to the flying, get on with the merger. Simple. If they want to be marginalized and reduced to a four or five aircraft business unit with no flying other than minor Japan rights that go with the Polar certificate, then keep behaving the same way.

Like it or not, the company is going to merge the two pilot groups. If I were a pilot in the 50% smaller (actually way more than 50%) group, I would certainly be asking my MEC what the heck they thought they were doing. Wouldn't it be better for all of us to have access to all of the flying? To have an industry leading contract? To have a profitable company that focused on business instead of putting out the fires created by a recalcitrant pilot group?

The average Polar pilot should ask himself what benefit he personally gets out of the continued roadblocks to this merger. I think you will find the answer in the latest announcement by the company.
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Old 28th Feb 2008, 18:16   #10 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Hopefully the next time AAWH lands a big ACMI contract they won't decide the customer will be better served by subcontracting it out to Connie or Evergeen.
OTOH, Atlas has done their share of offloading lucrative contracts to other airlines... They have lost a contract to Southern because the Atlas mismanagers insulted a KAL bigwig, are dry leasing an airplane (with maybe another one going) to Tradewinds, and have sold airplanes to Focus and other competitors who have taken markets Atlas previously served (mostly profitably). There is no end to the amazing BS mismanagement will pull to maximize short-term profits and put a better spin on their press releases.

On a semi-related note, look at how Delta and Northwest mismanagers are doing their best to portray the pilot groups as the ones who are torpedoing the merger that a few execs cooked up in a week or 2. Only if you read HARD between the lines will you find that (1) regulatory approval will be questionable at best; and (2) the "principles" of the alleged merger that were announced by the execs have not come to any firm agreement even between the boardrooms!
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Old 28th Feb 2008, 20:10   #11 (permalink)
 
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This type of management is cyclic, i.e., nothing new. I remember Flying Tigers subbing work to Evergreen and Southern, Evergreen subbing work to Connie and Polar, World subbing to Atlas and Polar, UPS subbing out to all of them, and so on. These guys all went to the same business schools and talk to each other all the time. It's all about maximizing revenues. It could be worse, they could shift our flying to regional jets like the scheds did.
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Old 28th Feb 2008, 20:28   #12 (permalink)
 
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Actually I am surprized that DHL is doing anythiing at all. They lost 900 million last year; Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley both pushed to shut down the U.S. operations but the new boss decided to downsize. I wonder where all this supposed lift is going and how long it will last. With economy dropping as fast as it is the old adage "when the US gets a cold the world gets pneumonia" is going to kick in sometime.
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Old 29th Feb 2008, 00:21   #13 (permalink)
 
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"Actually I am surprized that DHL is doing anythiing at all. They lost 900 million last year"

That is true, however the majority of the losses were in the domestic express small package/document business where they compete head on with Fedex/UPS using a plethora of subcontractors. The DHL freight forwarding operation that used to be Danzas, AEI and several other bought out and amalgamated forwarders caters to the heavylift bulk market. I think that division is profitable and has capacity to fill some 74`s. I would guess that even if they pulled out of the domestic package business there would still be a freight forwarding operation and associated lift.
flite idol is offline  
Old 29th Feb 2008, 00:32   #14 (permalink)
 
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The real loser here might be NWA. I wonder if their 747 cargo division can stand to lose the DHL freight.
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Old 29th Feb 2008, 02:48   #15 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I am surprized that DHL is doing anythiing at all. They lost 900 million last year; Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley both pushed to shut down the U.S. operations but the new boss decided to downsize.
As flite idol pointed out, most of those assessments are based on the ground segment of their freight market. AFAIK, DHL is still pushing forward to complete their air links around the northern hemisphere. Once that is complete, maybe their US ground ops will take off again...
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Old 29th Feb 2008, 15:21   #16 (permalink)
 
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Bottom line to the connection
DHL freight
Polar Contract
Atlas flying it
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Old 29th Feb 2008, 15:39   #17 (permalink)
 
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Layinlow - even tho you work for FedEx now, I will answer your obvious wind up.

Freight is consigned to DHL (owned by another person)
DHL contracts with AAWH to provide the lift.
AAWH selects one of its business units to do the job.
Freight goes to addressee on way-bill

Just like the current Polar guys, you seem to think that anything Polar touches is "theirs." This adolescent thought process and their associated tantrums are what created this situation for them in the first place. Perhaps they will be so pissed off at the company that they will turn in their wings too?

I can see it now - Robbobbin in his uniform standing at attention outside Cato's door with his wings in his hand....

Or perhaps he will try to shake Cato's hand and poke him with the pin like he did with Prater. Assault by union pin.

All very childish. It is time to grow up and join the real world. Otherwise we will be singing folk songs about the "brave" Polar pilots who are long remembered but no longer with us.

"A dragon lives forever but not so little boys
Painted wings and giant rings make way for other toys."
WhaleFR8 is offline  
Old 29th Feb 2008, 15:44   #18 (permalink)
 
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Unfortunately the future of USA /world competition dictates consolidation. That is, consolidation industry wide and in all sectors. Whale FR8, Belowmins, and others do have valid points.

What to do with those stubborn non-accepting Polar pilots thumbing their nose at the lions den while facing extinction? Make folk heroes out of them?
L-38 is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2008, 22:36   #19 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
nitty-gritty Actually you got the facts wrong once again. DHL purchased a 49% stake in the new Polar Holding company. It has no routes, assets (airplanes) or employees
Please read this http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...085exv10w3.htm prior to saying PACWW has no assets.

Have a good one
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Old 7th Mar 2008, 12:28   #20 (permalink)
 
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flite idol

I thought you might like this little tidbit that concerns your posting about what DHL is giving up. It is way more than you might think. Fed Ex expects to pick up 35% of the DHL air freight and 25% of the ground freight. UPS is expecting to pick up 25% of the ground freight; as for the rest of the routes, I cannot say but DHL is going "lean and mean" (their words). It had been rumored that Fed Ex was going to buy out DHL but they decided because of the anti-trust problems it would be better just to let them die on the vine and pick up the pieces. That is what is being done. Both Fed Ex and UPS are going to profit over this. So, I wonder where this leaves the DHL/Polar situation as Fed Ex has already increased the Japan, Asia, US frequencies.
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