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DHL/ATLAS/POLAR Connection?

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DHL/ATLAS/POLAR Connection?

Old 2nd Apr 2008, 03:10
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I just heard a rumor one of the Polar arbitrators rendered a decision Mar 25. Any truth/basis?
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Old 2nd Apr 2008, 16:47
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No ruling. Arbitration (merger) to be continued . . . . July of 08.
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Old 2nd Apr 2008, 21:55
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Nice job Lance. It sounds very professional until you got to the end. You shouldn't have gone there. It makes you sound like a couple of others that post here.
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Old 10th Apr 2008, 00:58
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Originally Posted by lancerdvr
AAWW management has been whipping the Polar crew force off the Atlas crew force since its aquisition of Polar, all to try and force the Polar crew force to give up its superior contract and accept the Atlas slave agreement. If the Atlas MEC had stood up to the Atlas management anti-labor tactics years ago, instead of bending over for a biscuit every time management offers one or runing scared, both groups would be in a far better place by now.
It appears that the Polar selective amnesia of history has kicked in again and/or that dreaded Stockholm syndrome from your MEC captors has reared it's head again. There are plenty of old threads with that already on it. Some still with the documented history of the events. Just use the search bar. One side provides documented facts, the other side only blandishments.

On another note, the Polar MEC did attend their Article 8 hearing at ALPA National. At least the MEC Chairman and Neg. Chairman did on the charges filed by the Atlas MEC for violations of a number of the ALPA code of ethics and Bylaws. Decision should be rendered in one to two weeks.

The new DHL flying seems to be running pretty smoothly. I think there was one hickup on a last minute 11,000 kg payload over flight plan resulting in a new flight release requiring more fuel uploading. Resulting in a delay.
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Old 10th Apr 2008, 15:41
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Delay

There was no Atlas charged delay due to the 11,000 kgs. increase in payload and the new flight plan. Ten minutes prior to departure DHL made the decision to increase the payload a second time. The total increase was 11,000 kgs. which required a new flight plan per Atlas GOM and a fuel increase. The loading was NOT complete when the flight crew was ready to push. When the DOC was contacted for push the crew was told to hold position for 18-25 minutes for inbound and outbound departures due to thunderstorms and routings. Once cleared for pushback numerous aircraft blocked the area behind the aircraft for another 20 minutes. The crew contacted DOC and inquired about the traffic and was informed that the DOC has no control of the aircraft and the pushback crew would have to find "a hole" to push.
Don't know where the rumor of a delay came from but I have the flight crew report which was submitted to the COO, DO and System Chief Pilot.

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Old 10th Apr 2008, 17:18
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Actually, it also didn't help matters that the loading crew put some NWA cans on the Polar (Atlas a/c) flight, and vice versa. That slowed things down quite a bit too. Welcome to the cornfield!
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Old 16th Apr 2008, 06:09
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I noted that the Polar MEC filed another grievance on flights going into HKG. Probably the ones under DHL that Atlas is flying currently.

Kind of sucks when things come back around to bite you in the tail due to short sightedness of "it will never happen to me".

On another note, Atlas is doing limited hiring at the moment. Preference of interview is given to those through the Atlas union hiring arrangement. ATA and Aloha are first in line at the moment (ALPA).

Guess we will know much later on the Polar grievance. Wish the guys at Atlas had an option to file a grievance when it hit them over and over again in the past with Polar.

https://crewroom.alpa.org/AAI072/Des...cumentID=42750In PDF I believe.

Last edited by nitty-gritty; 16th Apr 2008 at 06:27.
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Old 16th Apr 2008, 12:32
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If you think you have been grieved then go for it. There is no restriction on filing. Winning is another story.
I have a question since you are obviously an Atlas guy. You mentioned that not much was happening at Atlas. I am wondering if this is due to the loads being down or contracts drying up, whatever. Here we are experiencing a pretty good drop in business. I was wondering how it is in other parts of the world. I mentioned in earlier posts that I foresaw a serious shakeup and it looks to me like it is coming to fruitation, 4 airlines filing for bankruptcy, DL and NW merging, UA and CO looking at mergers, etc. With jet fuel running $3.15/gal in the states (I cannot imagine what it is overseas) and the jumbo, even the -400 uses a lot of fuel, that it must be affecting business. We are getting 777 freighters and I was noticing the interior cubic space. It is not much less than the -800 which should be coming on line in the near future. If the much touted savings in fuel is true (2 engines vs 4) I cannot wonder if the illustrious jumbo that I dearly loved is going become obsolete. I hope not but one does wonder.
I know that Atlas is an ACMI carrier, and willl the downturn in the world economy affect any new contracts? I have a lot of friends whom I would hate to see on the street. Maybe you could enlighten me.
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Old 17th Apr 2008, 06:39
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You have to have contract language to file a grievance on it's violation. Our scope is pretty limited due to factors like a recently purchased company used against us - acquiring a number of our A/C and contracts from us during our first contract negotiations. Resulting in about 200 furloughs, let alone the post 9/11 Bush NMB mandates. The same company requesting relief from agreed upon struck work rules prior to our strike release by the NMB to fly a number of our other contracts and A/C (@5).

So we didn't really have a lot to work with and no one to turn to for support, our sister union or ALPA National. No one was willing to hold a sympathy strike for us like we held for the same sister company a few years later -- they would only monitor their loads and request relief to fly our A/C and contracts. Resulting in what we got.

As far as ACMI, we get paid if 1 kilo is on board or if 120,000 is on board on our long term contracts (2-5 years). Customer pays for the fuel. We probably will make out alright. At least weather the storm. On the recent DHL alliance, I cannot give the metrics for it since I don't know what it goes for per kilo. The loads have been pretty good for a start. Usually 45 to 70 tons towards asia (always weak with all our customers) and 110 to 120 east bound to the US so far. Can't say what they are selling it for vs cost.

As far as the cubic space, the -400 is more weight driven than bulk. It tends to max out weight wise vs bulk. I'm not up to speed on the cubic space on a 777, but have been told it bulks out less than a 747-200. I do agree the 777 will beat out the 747-200 in fuel burn to lift and range. As to the 747-800 and continued 747-400 ops, that remains to be seen. Freight has always had to be there versus the passenger realm where the middle manager might have to go vs the conference call instead.
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Old 17th Apr 2008, 12:55
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We pulled up the stats on the 777 and we found that it holds only a few pallets less than the jumbo and the belly held more. As for the height, I know the 747 has a restriction on height as far as the nose loader goes and the pallet heights are restricted also due to the upper deck, at least for the first few rows of pallets. But with the fuel burns being so much less, the extra weight would have to be significant to to justify 4 engines vs. 2. At least that is my take.
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Old 17th Apr 2008, 13:03
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The only thing I'd add is those few pallets can make a big difference when dealing with slots. You use the slot whether its a Cessna 150 or 747, so restrictive airports can be a factor. Also, those extra pallets times 3 or 4 flights a day can be the profit margin?
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Old 17th Apr 2008, 18:37
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That may be true, if you are comparing 4 engine aircraft to 4 engine aircraft, but when you subtract two engines and realize that the 777 burns the same amount as 2 1/2 engines (CF 6's) then a couple of pallets less will not kill you. While I know that the ACMI customers pay for the fuel, costs are never-the-less costs and if someone can do it cheaper and more reliably, guess where they will head. DHL/LH are going to the 777, Fed Ex is going to the 777, UPS is looking at the 777. I just feel that the price of fuel is going to be a killer with 4 engine aircraft. The only way to compete would be to drop the rates with very little profit margins. Lose an engine and guess what? There goes the margin.
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Old 17th Apr 2008, 21:06
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May be ridicules - but imagine a B-742 re-equipped with a pair of triple seven motors. A cheap efficient workhorse alla the old 70 series stretch 8 (and with plenty of power to spare).

Boeing sells new airplanes however, and would simply buy up and destroy classic airframes if the idea worked. I had measured the pylon / ground clearance of a B-742 a while ago, and a 777 motor would clear - although a tight fit (at 20 inches to ground - 4 inches less than a -70a).
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 00:16
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Might be too expensive for a Classic, but not so ridiculous for a 744. After all, how did they flight test the 777 engines before there were 777s?
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 16:51
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Wind tunnels
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 17:12
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Good point, Intruder.


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Gener...SF)/0313479/M/


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Gener...SF)/0326662/L/
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Old 19th Apr 2008, 22:59
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Maybe hanging two on a 747 not so crazy after all??

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/9/...7/GE90115B.wmv
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Old 20th Apr 2008, 09:51
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dpwn may consider selling dhl express us operations

http://www.elogistics-trendwatch.com...us-operations/
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Old 20th Apr 2008, 21:16
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DHL to sell the US Ops??

Read the WHOLE article. You will see that the evidence does not support the rumored sell or partnership suggested in your subject line. What will happen, I, for one, do not know but it is most important that we do not fuel harmful speculation. There are many jobs at stake and the spread of opinions as anything other than opinions is counter-productive.
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Old 21st Apr 2008, 00:16
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I basically agree Clipperskip, albeit knowledge of what's being reported in the press can be very useful to any employee!

For the record, I for one, wouldn't dream of speculating and the subject line that offended you, is merely a cut and paste of the article's title.

Good luck to all of our American cousins.
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