Jade Cargo
Join Date: Mar 2009
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I'd say Sky hit the nail on the head with the exception of the uphill struggle to move from an FO position to Captain. It's will be that and more, in fact I seriously doubt it will happen any time soon. But, depending on where you're coming from, and if you can spare 3 years out of your life, the pay is great for an FO, compared to working at a commuter in the USA. The experience is good, plus after this, every job will be a piece of cake. Again, it's just my opinion.
Join Date: May 2008
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Pay clarification
Can anyone please comment on the pay they published, whether the flight pay guaranteed of 65 hours is including the basic? or is it the basic plus the figure of the guaranteed hours, +- 100000 RMB. ?
its a bit confusing.
Cheers
its a bit confusing.
Cheers
Join Date: Jul 2006
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I personally try to stay away from rumors, etc. As for the motivational issue, well I guess everyone has their reasons, mine is to try and give some people who may be interested some insight into the place. Maybe others will respond as to their reasons.
Frankly, anyone who makes a life changing decision based upon what someone posts on an anonymous internet forum isn't the best and brightest anyway. That said, there is some information here that you won't get in a screening, or that maybe will allow someone to ask informed questions before they commit to joining a company.
About the PICC's making landings, all the pilots make landings. Everyone is required to maintain currency, the PICC's fly from the right seat.
The salaries quoted are BEFORE taxes, when they say the the company pays the tax it is a true statement, literally. The company withholds the money from your check and pays the tax for you, the Chinese tax rates vary depending on how much you make. I would say the average is somewhere between 25-35% of "taxable salary". Housing allowance, medical insurance, per diem, etc are excluded. Currently, the guarantee is 80 hrs, although this is something that could change at any moment, as the contract does specify a 65 hr guarantee.
According to the central gov't, Shenzhen is now the most expensive place to live in the PRC. They recently raised the minimum wage in the region to compensate.
About the screening, I am not sure it is something you can prepare for, except to be ready to take the CAAC ATPL exam. If you try to "scam" the psyche exam, I would be shocked if you make it to the second phase. The sim profile is pretty standard and they are just looking to make sure your "experience" matches your performance level. The medical is to put it lightly is a "life experience" to say the least.
At the end of the day, you need to realize that you are a foreigner, working in a foreign country that probably has many different cultural aspects than what you are accustomed. You will not change the way they do business, you need to adapt or not come in the first place. That doesn't mean that it is impossible to make some constructive changes, just that change moves at the speed of cold molasses.
Frankly, anyone who makes a life changing decision based upon what someone posts on an anonymous internet forum isn't the best and brightest anyway. That said, there is some information here that you won't get in a screening, or that maybe will allow someone to ask informed questions before they commit to joining a company.
About the PICC's making landings, all the pilots make landings. Everyone is required to maintain currency, the PICC's fly from the right seat.
The salaries quoted are BEFORE taxes, when they say the the company pays the tax it is a true statement, literally. The company withholds the money from your check and pays the tax for you, the Chinese tax rates vary depending on how much you make. I would say the average is somewhere between 25-35% of "taxable salary". Housing allowance, medical insurance, per diem, etc are excluded. Currently, the guarantee is 80 hrs, although this is something that could change at any moment, as the contract does specify a 65 hr guarantee.
According to the central gov't, Shenzhen is now the most expensive place to live in the PRC. They recently raised the minimum wage in the region to compensate.
About the screening, I am not sure it is something you can prepare for, except to be ready to take the CAAC ATPL exam. If you try to "scam" the psyche exam, I would be shocked if you make it to the second phase. The sim profile is pretty standard and they are just looking to make sure your "experience" matches your performance level. The medical is to put it lightly is a "life experience" to say the least.
At the end of the day, you need to realize that you are a foreigner, working in a foreign country that probably has many different cultural aspects than what you are accustomed. You will not change the way they do business, you need to adapt or not come in the first place. That doesn't mean that it is impossible to make some constructive changes, just that change moves at the speed of cold molasses.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Nicely said Skyryder. That was informative and instructive, cheers.
Just a question though, I applied appoximately 6 months ago and so far heard nothing. I updated my application around 3 weeks ago. So I suppose either I haven't been considered or they are not taking on FO's right now?
Just a question though, I applied appoximately 6 months ago and so far heard nothing. I updated my application around 3 weeks ago. So I suppose either I haven't been considered or they are not taking on FO's right now?
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Anything new at Jade? Hiring, firing, leaving at will....pilot moral?
Are they still offering commuting contracts? Still little to no chance of an upgrade?
They say no news is good news...or is there just no one left to spill the beans. Any new FO's willing to share some gen? Sitting on the fence about putting in an application so any heads up gen will be appreciated.
Are they still offering commuting contracts? Still little to no chance of an upgrade?
They say no news is good news...or is there just no one left to spill the beans. Any new FO's willing to share some gen? Sitting on the fence about putting in an application so any heads up gen will be appreciated.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Stuttgart/Germany
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Hi,
I磎 also interested If there are some news...Nice to know would be If there are plans for European bases and If not,maybe somebody here who can tell me if living in Germany,if there is a possibility to commute or get active flights from FRA or LEJ to get a reasonable time off at home? Also,how much net would be left per month in EUR or USD,including all allowances and per diem?
Thank you!
I磎 also interested If there are some news...Nice to know would be If there are plans for European bases and If not,maybe somebody here who can tell me if living in Germany,if there is a possibility to commute or get active flights from FRA or LEJ to get a reasonable time off at home? Also,how much net would be left per month in EUR or USD,including all allowances and per diem?
Thank you!
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Japan.....
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Jade conditions
As with any airline, there is always the highs and lows and currently Jade is trying to make things better to stem the loss of pilots. The best thing about Jade, the training is fairly short, in comparison with other Chinese companies, the pay is pretty good, as for an FO, the in the bank amount is around 10K USD and for a PICC, it's around 11K USD. Don't ask me for a break down, that's in the pocket total. FO's upgrading, they are trying but the Government keeps putting up a wall. Some of the PICC's have upgraded recently. Since things have been at a kind of low, it's probably not a bad time, if you've been considering, as there is no doubt the conditions will start to improve. Right now, expect 10 days off per month in a row and that's burning two days vacation. There is not any base other than Shenzhen however, they have been good about giving guys living in Europe, the opportunity to start and stop there. If you're living in FRA, you might get off in AMS or FRA, it's a toss up but they do work with you and since there has been quite a few guys leave, I'm thinking they might try just a bit harder. However, with that said, I've put enough time in there and listened to empty promises, I'm not going to hang around any longer than the next decent job offer. But that's me, not the pilot group as a whole, which is probably happy in their own way.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Thanx Jaz,for the quick reply!
In an earlier post you said,that somebody from Germany could count on 15 days at home per month,is this still the case,and if yes also for new-joiners?
Greetings...
In an earlier post you said,that somebody from Germany could count on 15 days at home per month,is this still the case,and if yes also for new-joiners?
Greetings...
Join Date: Jul 2006
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grist for the mill..
A. Jack and Talon,
I am not sure about recruiting for F/O's. I know they are conducting a screening in FRA this month (as per the web site) and I know they are focusing on pilots with type or at least time on the airplane. I suspect this is to curb the training time to the line and also deal with the inability to upgrade issue.
I am not sure if the moronic action the idiot at Juneyao just pulled is going to affect the ability to employ foreign pilots on a nationwide scale or not. It is a tight spot for sure. I heard that the number of citizen pilots that are not under contract to a national carrier is a really small number, and the airline industry continues to grow. I know the CAAC wants to make a statement about how things will be done in China, but I also know that if they make it too hard, the industry will suffer.
Anyway, the truth is that a number of pilots have left Jade, and are continuing to leave. Most of the guys that work at Jade do/will have other options and as their contracts expire will have to make a decision as what to do.
Most of those who have left have been F/O's that were told when they joined they would be able to upgrade. Recently a number of PIC's have left as well, mostly because of working conditions (or lack thereof) and the fact the compensation package has stagnated. There maybe some increases coming soon, but that is all speculation.
The roster has gotten a lot more stable and there is currently a new flight management staff in place. The Chief Pilot has some experience in this type of operation which is cause for hope as he is the first to have experience.
Just so there is no confusion, there is not now, nor will there be (IMHO) a domicile anywhere outside of China. What IS in place is a rostering package that allows a pilot to begin and end the block days off in one of the European destinations and rostering will try to work with you to make the city closest to your home (if you live in Europe or want to commute across the Atlantic).
Jade has rationalized its route structure, which has made for fewer enroute delays and more reliability. However, the next 3-4 months are going to be a real challenge for the rostering staff as well as the pilot group. The pilot losses are at the critical stage, at least that is my opinion and the increased flying heading into the Western holiday season is going to put a strain on resources.
If you are interested, put in the paper, follow it up and stay on them. However, come here with eyes wide open. The Chinese society has a way of doing things that has "worked" for them for centuries. They are not likely to change to accommodate a small group of "temporary" workers, no matter how much "we" think they need to change. If you can't live with that, then do yourself a favor and stay away. If you can, you may find yourself working with a good bunch of guys, in a very interesting part of the world. For sure, the word "boring" will rarely enter your lexicon.
One more thing, for the most part, these are just my opinions, and I am sure that you all are aware of the similarities of opinions with a certain body part. Proceed at your own peril.
Sky
I am not sure about recruiting for F/O's. I know they are conducting a screening in FRA this month (as per the web site) and I know they are focusing on pilots with type or at least time on the airplane. I suspect this is to curb the training time to the line and also deal with the inability to upgrade issue.
I am not sure if the moronic action the idiot at Juneyao just pulled is going to affect the ability to employ foreign pilots on a nationwide scale or not. It is a tight spot for sure. I heard that the number of citizen pilots that are not under contract to a national carrier is a really small number, and the airline industry continues to grow. I know the CAAC wants to make a statement about how things will be done in China, but I also know that if they make it too hard, the industry will suffer.
Anyway, the truth is that a number of pilots have left Jade, and are continuing to leave. Most of the guys that work at Jade do/will have other options and as their contracts expire will have to make a decision as what to do.
Most of those who have left have been F/O's that were told when they joined they would be able to upgrade. Recently a number of PIC's have left as well, mostly because of working conditions (or lack thereof) and the fact the compensation package has stagnated. There maybe some increases coming soon, but that is all speculation.
The roster has gotten a lot more stable and there is currently a new flight management staff in place. The Chief Pilot has some experience in this type of operation which is cause for hope as he is the first to have experience.
Just so there is no confusion, there is not now, nor will there be (IMHO) a domicile anywhere outside of China. What IS in place is a rostering package that allows a pilot to begin and end the block days off in one of the European destinations and rostering will try to work with you to make the city closest to your home (if you live in Europe or want to commute across the Atlantic).
Jade has rationalized its route structure, which has made for fewer enroute delays and more reliability. However, the next 3-4 months are going to be a real challenge for the rostering staff as well as the pilot group. The pilot losses are at the critical stage, at least that is my opinion and the increased flying heading into the Western holiday season is going to put a strain on resources.
If you are interested, put in the paper, follow it up and stay on them. However, come here with eyes wide open. The Chinese society has a way of doing things that has "worked" for them for centuries. They are not likely to change to accommodate a small group of "temporary" workers, no matter how much "we" think they need to change. If you can't live with that, then do yourself a favor and stay away. If you can, you may find yourself working with a good bunch of guys, in a very interesting part of the world. For sure, the word "boring" will rarely enter your lexicon.
One more thing, for the most part, these are just my opinions, and I am sure that you all are aware of the similarities of opinions with a certain body part. Proceed at your own peril.
Sky
Join Date: Oct 2011
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Hi Guys, these posts have been very helpful. I have a quick qu about the pilot screening day for FO's in November. What is the latest? I have noted that many have commented it is no walk through, I am mainly concerned about what type of ATP qu and technical qu's. Please feel free to PM me
Cheers
Cheers
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Internal mail
Flylikeaneagle.
Why don't you get another job?, if Jade is so terrible, vote with your feet and walk away.
Can it be that you cannot find a job that pays the same money, or gives you better T&C?
You are posting internal mails on a public website, In my book that is illoyal.
I would like to keep my job at Jade, please don't contribute to making that more difficult by dragging the name of the company further into the dirt.
I try to focus on the positive aspects of my job, and life in general, it makes my day so much more enjoyable.
Why don't you get another job?, if Jade is so terrible, vote with your feet and walk away.
Can it be that you cannot find a job that pays the same money, or gives you better T&C?
You are posting internal mails on a public website, In my book that is illoyal.
I would like to keep my job at Jade, please don't contribute to making that more difficult by dragging the name of the company further into the dirt.
I try to focus on the positive aspects of my job, and life in general, it makes my day so much more enjoyable.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Here today, elsewhere tomorrow
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You are posting internal mails on a public website, In my book that is illoyal.
Lufty said publicly they wanted an agreement over cash infusion before the end of the year.
Nothing in his post was surprising, it was clear it was coming.
He is no more disloyal than a company that isn't informing its customers of what's going on.
Let's hope an agreement can be found.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Reported on Carnoc
国内首家合资货运航空公司外方股东萌生退意
Rough translation using google.
As Europe's largest aviation group, Lufthansa (Deutsche Lufthansa AG) is preparing to exit the Chinese market. Lufthansa subsidiary Lufthansa Cargo CEO Ga Nate has a logistics conference in Frankfurt, said that because the face price war, companies face of competitors, may have to opt out of the Chinese market.
It is understood that, within the meaning of Lufthansa Cargo joint venture enterprise that is the first domestic cargo airlines - Jade Cargo International Co., Ltd. (Jade Cargo International Airlines Co., Ltd., Referred to as "Jade Cargo"), a company owned by Lufthansa German investment and development company and a joint venture between Shenzhen Airlines, three were holding 25%, 24% and 51%. Currently, Germany is working with British Airways, Lufthansa and British Airways Virgin Atlantic to discuss matters relating to transfer of ownership.
Jade Cargo sailing since, and did not meet the expectations of the German Lufthansa, according to the news, "the expected revenue is less than one-fifth, and encounter difficulties in financing."
Lufthansa, Germany suffered its own financial difficulties, also contributed to the contraction of the front as soon as possible. It is understood the company's third quarter operating income of 4.94 billion euros, down over 21%. Germany's Lufthansa Group hopes to 2013, business spending will be cut 1.5 billion euros.
Industry: Domestic flight prices or the opportunity to buy a head start can be
Than-expected earnings caused by Jade Cargo is mainly due to weak global economy. World Trade Organization (WTO) data show that the debt crisis hit the global economy suffered this year, global trade is expected to grow 5.8%, compared with 14.1% increase in 2010 reduced by 7.3 percentage points.
China's air cargo market is not optimistic about the statistics from the Civil Aviation Authority, cargo and mail turnover in November declined by 9.8%, and 1-11 months, the cumulative decline of 3.4%.
Among them, the largest decrease in international routes, cargo and mail turnover in November declined by 15.9% cumulative 1-November fell 5.6%.
Jade Cargo, one of the competitors, Cathay Pacific Airways Limited of Hong Kong (Cathay Pacific Airways Limited, referred to as "Cathay Pacific"), also said that the Mainland and Hong Kong's air cargo demand continues to decline, the company's cargo in October fell by 17.5%.
The industry believes that the lack of funds in the international aviation giants had to shrink the front when the opportunity to buy the domestic flight prices can expand the market share for a head start when the market recovers.
Rough translation using google.
As Europe's largest aviation group, Lufthansa (Deutsche Lufthansa AG) is preparing to exit the Chinese market. Lufthansa subsidiary Lufthansa Cargo CEO Ga Nate has a logistics conference in Frankfurt, said that because the face price war, companies face of competitors, may have to opt out of the Chinese market.
It is understood that, within the meaning of Lufthansa Cargo joint venture enterprise that is the first domestic cargo airlines - Jade Cargo International Co., Ltd. (Jade Cargo International Airlines Co., Ltd., Referred to as "Jade Cargo"), a company owned by Lufthansa German investment and development company and a joint venture between Shenzhen Airlines, three were holding 25%, 24% and 51%. Currently, Germany is working with British Airways, Lufthansa and British Airways Virgin Atlantic to discuss matters relating to transfer of ownership.
Jade Cargo sailing since, and did not meet the expectations of the German Lufthansa, according to the news, "the expected revenue is less than one-fifth, and encounter difficulties in financing."
Lufthansa, Germany suffered its own financial difficulties, also contributed to the contraction of the front as soon as possible. It is understood the company's third quarter operating income of 4.94 billion euros, down over 21%. Germany's Lufthansa Group hopes to 2013, business spending will be cut 1.5 billion euros.
Industry: Domestic flight prices or the opportunity to buy a head start can be
Than-expected earnings caused by Jade Cargo is mainly due to weak global economy. World Trade Organization (WTO) data show that the debt crisis hit the global economy suffered this year, global trade is expected to grow 5.8%, compared with 14.1% increase in 2010 reduced by 7.3 percentage points.
China's air cargo market is not optimistic about the statistics from the Civil Aviation Authority, cargo and mail turnover in November declined by 9.8%, and 1-11 months, the cumulative decline of 3.4%.
Among them, the largest decrease in international routes, cargo and mail turnover in November declined by 15.9% cumulative 1-November fell 5.6%.
Jade Cargo, one of the competitors, Cathay Pacific Airways Limited of Hong Kong (Cathay Pacific Airways Limited, referred to as "Cathay Pacific"), also said that the Mainland and Hong Kong's air cargo demand continues to decline, the company's cargo in October fell by 17.5%.
The industry believes that the lack of funds in the international aviation giants had to shrink the front when the opportunity to buy the domestic flight prices can expand the market share for a head start when the market recovers.