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Freight Dogs Finally a forum for those midnight prowler types who utilise the unglamorous parts of airports that many of us never get to see. Freight Dogs is for pilots and crew who operate mostly without SLF.


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Old 11th Jan 2006, 16:31   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SX
Posts: 27
Cargolux details requested!

Good day to ALL!
Would like to inquire on information about Cargolux:
-Roster/ scheduling of trips-destinations
-days off per month
-annual leave days
-wages for FOs
-years/experience needed for command
-process of recruitment
-general working environment!!!
THANKS!
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Old 12th Jan 2006, 14:57   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bananarepublic
Posts: 2
Re: Cargolux details requested!

Rostering, Trips:
Worldwide operations.Expect a roster, that will work you to the limits.
Too many days away from home, because management thinks you are only productive, when you sit around in hotels. Being with your family is considered ineffective use of human resources.

Off-days:
Nine per 28 day roster. 6 fixed and in a row. 3 floating, and can be assigned for work by the company.They then are granted in a later roster, or paid for, as you wish..
Union claims no rest into OFF-days, but company resists, leading to a work-to-rule at the moment.

Annual leave 42 days.

Wages for FOīs:
Money taken home is generally ok, due to low socialinsurance contributions and friendly tax-regime in LUX.
Family income depends on family status. Married people take an extra 500 Euros per paycheck.First child ~120 extra ,and any further child 75 Euros, due to tax reduction.
Luxemburg has a so called index on salaries, and allowances paid by the state. Whenever inflation makes a 2,5% step, you get this as a payrise, by law.
Last indexes given in Oct.2004 and again in Oct.2005 due to the price of oil.

Family allowance of ~185 for one child, ~440 for two, 768 for three children. However, donīt overdo it with the number of children, because you will not be around home too much, to see them and assist your partner in their upbringing.
If your wife gives birth, there are more allowances from the state.

Donīt worry about qualification for command, by the time you get there, you will be qualified.I think present upgrades joined around 1998/99
After fast expansion, that has given some great career opportunities, things have slowed down.
If you join now, you will have around 170 FOīs ahead of you, total number of pilots around 350 and rising.
Pace seems to pick up again, and the outlook is positive, with the 747-8 being expected from 2009 and some business for Boeing with the LCF.
Rumours about more airplanes before 2009.
Recruitment is ongoing. Selection by interview, and psychometrical testing carried out in Germany, at an institute , run by the company doctor.
For details check on www.cargolux.com.

The working environment is friendly, relaxed yet very professional.
Training and sims are professional and fair.

At this time , a work-to-rule is in progress. The main reason is, the pilot community feels rostering and rest has a reached a level, that is not bearable in the long run. Management is expecting to squeeze even more out of us.
If the present conditions deteriorate further, joining is not a good idea, because you will not be able to stand this for the length of a career.

The problem of fatigue has been recognized by the company, and they say they want to do something about it, through a project with the participation of experts on the matter. However, seeing the unwillingness of
management to talk in the present negotiations, I am cautious. This year will be decisive for the future of working conditions in Cargolux.
NoRulesInLux is offline   Reply
Old 13th Jan 2006, 09:58   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SX
Posts: 27
Re: Cargolux details requested!

Thank you so much for your very informative reply NoRulesInLux!
I have one last question!
Please state the average monthly FO salary.
Thanks again!
SX737 is offline   Reply
Old 13th Jan 2006, 19:20   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 29
Re: Cargolux details requested!

Depending how you're rostered but I believe that a FO can can normally count on earning just under €5000 plus the per diem. There is a 13th cheque and profit share as well.
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Old 14th Jan 2006, 03:53   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: here
Posts: 16
Re: Cargolux details requested!

thanks for the great reply.are there many commuters at cv,for instance the uk,ireland,and is it possible with the roster?
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Old 15th Jan 2006, 10:45   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: STN
Posts: 15
Re: Cargolux details requested!

yeh, there's a few... but if you commute from the UK, u might get away from "big brother" but you'll have "Uncle Gordon, and his band of merry men," on your back for his due's....and believe me they don't give up!!!!
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Old 15th Jan 2006, 21:40   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: here
Posts: 16
Re: Cargolux details requested!

thanks for the reply.sorry to show my ignorance,but as i haven't lived in the eu in years,i presume you are talking about the internal revenue people..?does the fact that you are away a lot of the year not give you relief,or do you have to pay taxes in both lux and the uk?
do you work for cv?
mtnflyer
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Old 17th Jan 2006, 12:54   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SX
Posts: 27
Living in Lux.

Does anyone know if Cargolux sponsors living expenses, especially if you choose to commute(ex. hotel room or small apartment)? Is there somekind of help for accommodation? How is social life in Luxemburg?
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Old 17th Jan 2006, 13:23   #9 (permalink)
CR2

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Join Date: May 2000
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Age: 45
Posts: 2,289
737azf: To the first part, I believe not. Commuting is your affair, not the company's. You'd get company rates at hotels at best. People who commute before flying, then complain of fatigue are frowned upon.

Social life is so-so. If you're coming from a big city, then there is the equivalent of sod-all. Of course you'll find/be shown what there is.
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Old 17th Jan 2006, 20:56   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SX
Posts: 27
Living in Lux.

Thanks CR2!
If someone chooses to rent a small but nice apartment what would be the monthly cost (rent+utilities). Would Cargolux be willing to sponsor all or some of those expenses?
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Old 17th Jan 2006, 21:36   #11 (permalink)
LUXury is a 13,000 ft runway
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Centre of Western Europe
Posts: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by 737zaf
Thanks CR2!
If someone chooses to rent a small but nice apartment what would be the monthly cost (rent+utilities). Would Cargolux be willing to sponsor all or some of those expenses?
#1: For "small but nice" read 2 bedrooms? Nice apartment or nice area as well? In LUX-Ville proper, or would Germany or France with around 30 mins commute (by car) be fine (living in Belgium near LUX, i.e. aound the city of Arlon is, by definition, not nice, and thus out of the question)? You see, the place you're looking at could cost anything from EUR 2000 plus /month in LUX-Ville to EUR 500/month on the German side of River Moselle (or possibly less in the Hinterland).
#2: As has been said before, your living expenses are usually just that - yours. You can always ask, mind you...
tom de luxe is offline   Reply
Old 17th Jan 2006, 21:40   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Aivary
Posts: 3
CV pay for living expensesfor a "nice app"in lux...
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha........
oh dear...hahahahahahahahahaha, best u try cathay.....haven't had such a good laugh for a long time......
Bird flu is offline   Reply
Old 18th Jan 2006, 10:32   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Greece
Posts: 33
Many airlines mainly in the Far East, and the Middle East do have free housing, education, or allowances for that.
However such a thing is not foreseen at Cargolux.
Some contract-captains I think have hotel accomodation included in their deal.
This is not available for employees.
I think tom de luxe is about right with his numbers. Housing in Luxemburg is very very expensive.
Living across the border is an option though. Since most of our flying takes place around the globe, the number of drives to the airport is quite limited, so a 30 minutes drive is absolutely acceptable. You are looking at 2 to 3 departures from Luxemburg within a roster.
If you share a place in Germany with another pilot, you may bring the cost further down, and for most of the days, you will have the place for yourself, since the other guy might well be flying.
For you guys that are considering becoming expats, the deal in Luxemburg is different from the asian carriers. You do not have the housing and school allowances.
What you have though is a european retirement system, that will consider insured times from other EU countries. When you retire, you will still have health insurance as a retiree. For someone coming back from overseas, that might not be the case, and then you start spending a lot of the money you made, to get insurance.
Just to repeat what CR2 has written above:
Commuting is your choice and your responsibility. You should have a place to rest before the flights, and you are supposed to show up well rested for a flight by law.
Showing up tired, for a long flight with augmented crew, and expecting to get the first rest, will not get you too many friends in the long run.
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Old 18th Jan 2006, 18:58   #14 (permalink)
on the run
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I started with CV in 2005.
I have all respect for what the older guys say about working conditions etc. They should know. They have been around longer.
But for me it's a dreamjob. One has to remember where you come from. Guess that's very individual. I flew five years in a European airline, shorthaul, and that almost killed me. With CV I have more days off, much more vacation, and it's more relaxed, never any stress, and you 'normally' get at least one day at destination, sometimes longer, up to a week. I was used to four sectors/day with stress stress stress and slots, and busy airports in Europe, and always minimum rest at destinations.
Just for your info. One job could be very different for different persons.
Regards,
on the run with pink floyd
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Old 18th Jan 2006, 22:04   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SX
Posts: 27
Living in Lux.

Thanks GreekPilot747 and on the run for all the posted info!
I probably do have a bit to go till I get the hours to apply but I am gathering all available info that I can.
SX737 is offline   Reply
Old 19th Jan 2006, 12:26   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by on the run
I started with CV in 2005.
I have all respect for what the older guys say about working conditions etc. They should know. They have been around longer.
But for me it's a dreamjob. One has to remember where you come from. Guess that's very individual. I flew five years in a European airline, shorthaul, and that almost killed me. With CV I have more days off, much more vacation, and it's more relaxed, never any stress, and you 'normally' get at least one day at destination, sometimes longer, up to a week. I was used to four sectors/day with stress stress stress and slots, and busy airports in Europe, and always minimum rest at destinations.
Just for your info. One job could be very different for different persons.
Regards,
on the run with pink floyd
@ on the run: are you sure that you are employed as a pilot with CV? ;-)
I wish I could say the same after about 7 years with CV. What I am seeing lately is a lot of back to back trips, meaning a long trip with often minimum rest at destinations then one! day off before you go on another letīs say 9 day trip. No regards for time zone changes health etc. That is a lot of stress and a burden on your social life as well. Even living in LUX doesnīt help with rosters like that. Granted, it was better until about 2 years ago before some changes were made to the management structures in the relevant dept.
btw.
Productivity (block hours in our job) has not changed much - just less days at home to satisfy some office folks dislike of pilots.
If it was so great why would far more than 90% have approved the zero tolerance action in effect right now?
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Old 19th Jan 2006, 12:46   #17 (permalink)
on the run
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burgerking
@ on the run: are you sure that you are employed as a pilot with CV? ;-)
I wish I could say the same after about 7 years with CV. What I am seeing lately is a lot of back to back trips, meaning a long trip with often minimum rest at destinations then one! day off before you go on another letīs say 9 day trip. No regards for time zone changes health etc. That is a lot of stress and a burden on your social life as well. Even living in LUX doesnīt help with rosters like that. Granted, it was better until about 2 years ago before some changes were made to the management structures in the relevant dept.
btw.
Productivity (block hours in our job) has not changed much - just less days at home to satisfy some office folks dislike of pilots.
If it was so great why would far more than 90% have approved the zero tolerance action in effect right now?
Burgerking,
Again I would like to say 'I have all respect for what the older guys say about working conditions etc. They should know. They have been around longer.'
And I know via frieds how the roster was more than two years ago. It's difficult times for the company, a lot of things have to be sorted out. Yes, 90% speaks for itself.
But what I am also saying, which was my point, is that one has to remember where you come from. For me this job is so much better from my previous. But that is very individual. For me that's a fact, for others not.
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Old 19th Jan 2006, 14:25   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 7
O.K. I see your point. Was your former airline a lowcoster like ryanair or similar?

regards, burgerking
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Old 19th Jan 2006, 14:39   #19 (permalink)
on the run
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Yepp, something similar.
Best regards!
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Old 19th Jan 2006, 15:30   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 45
On the run,

I'm glad you are happy in Cargolux! Having just started I'm also sure that you are still excited about flying big shiny 747's to exotic destinations. Be careful though, just because you used to work for slave drivers before doesn't mean that you should let this job get diluted as your previous colleagues did. We are trying to make sure that this remains a good job for years to come, without hurting the financial well being of the company. As it is now it has become devastating for the family/social aspects of our lives and some duties even close to being dangerous.

Don't get me wrong, this is still one of the best companies to work for. All we have to do is to tweak it here and there to make it great! Support this measure and you will benefit for years to come.
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