Should I vote ".For" the Rule Change?
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CXKA,fact is the overall attrition rate is low.
What part don't you understand?
And even if the rate wiuld be higher, what difference does it make?
Every B scaler that leaves is a win for the company, not a loss.
Every C scaler can e replaced even easier.
Fact is: you guys overplayed your hand, the company called it. They will not give in, mark my words.
Now, thanks to guys like you, we are sitting ducks without a payrise and without HKPA improvements.
Who is actually undermining pilots rights??
What part don't you understand?
And even if the rate wiuld be higher, what difference does it make?
Every B scaler that leaves is a win for the company, not a loss.
Every C scaler can e replaced even easier.
Fact is: you guys overplayed your hand, the company called it. They will not give in, mark my words.
Now, thanks to guys like you, we are sitting ducks without a payrise and without HKPA improvements.
Who is actually undermining pilots rights??
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No Trafalgar, I don't work at Cathay for the money. This is just a disguise.
My real intentions are actually to cure cancer, stop famines and achieve world peace.
Your statement confirms what I always assumed:
you and a few others are out there on a crusade. Its not about negotiating a contract anymore for you, you are full of anger and all you want is revenge, facts don't matter anymore.
My real intentions are actually to cure cancer, stop famines and achieve world peace.
Your statement confirms what I always assumed:
you and a few others are out there on a crusade. Its not about negotiating a contract anymore for you, you are full of anger and all you want is revenge, facts don't matter anymore.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 11th Jul 2017 at 05:51.
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Well, after that rant I can see that debating you is pointless. I am very comfortable with CC, TB and the insistence on this company providing a legally binding, equitable contract. If they choose to not do so, then I will make my career decision accordingly. Nothing you have said in many months of posts has been anything other than denigrating of the majority of pilots in this airline, and/or supportive of management. Others can comment on what they conclude about that fact.
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On the subject of Resignations, what happened to yours STW? The post is still there on the other forum. Yet I'm still to see your name on the newsletter resignation list.
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I am not Paul, dude.
And I am not resigning for the very same reason almost nobody else does. For the very same reason people still join, apply by the thousands.
Do I need to say it?
And I am not resigning for the very same reason almost nobody else does. For the very same reason people still join, apply by the thousands.
Do I need to say it?
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Paul's narcissistic ramblings seemed to have a point at least.
This guy however..
I suspect more of one of those communist party style plants trying to deflect discussion by posting inflammatory rubbish.
Or he just has mental issues.
This guy however..
I suspect more of one of those communist party style plants trying to deflect discussion by posting inflammatory rubbish.
Or he just has mental issues.
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I hope Paul doesn't resign. I vehemently disagree with his attitude and approach, but I would rather argue from within than without. Besides, he's got the experience that I am worried CX is losing, and in spite of the frustration with his philosophy, he's a good guy and deserving of respect. Just a little bit nuts that's all... 
(and yes, many say the same of me!)
(and yes, many say the same of me!)
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STW, you're obviously too thick to comprehend what people are trying to tell you. You think you're being clever with your posts, but you're only looking like a gargantuan fool. Why don't you do some research and see how many resignations Cathay had 15, 10, 5 years ago compared to now. Why don't you then graph the results and see the obvious trend. If you still come back with your utter nonsense, then your maturity and intelligence is approaching that of a donkey.
What you fail to realize is that it's not just junior guys and gals leaving, it's also some very senior FOs and Captains that have left. These are people who are letting go decades of seniority in pursuit of something better. Many more are teetering on the edge including myself, and I've been here for over two decades and still have ways to go before my retirement. Show me one airline where you have that many senior crews throwing in the towel because they've had enough of the draconian style of management and working conditions.
What you fail to realize is that it's not just junior guys and gals leaving, it's also some very senior FOs and Captains that have left. These are people who are letting go decades of seniority in pursuit of something better. Many more are teetering on the edge including myself, and I've been here for over two decades and still have ways to go before my retirement. Show me one airline where you have that many senior crews throwing in the towel because they've had enough of the draconian style of management and working conditions.
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Dragon,
where are the numbers to back up
your statement?
I look like a fool?
YOU make a claim, YOU have to show the data to proof it.
So, how many did resign this year?
How many last year, the year before, etc?
Of course the absolute number of people resigning is higher today than 10 or 15 years ago, the airline is twice as big now.
All that counts is the percentage.
I am here for more than a decade. I don't see a trend. There were always people leaving, every single year since I joined. I move up the list at a pretty constant rate. Does that make me thick in your opinion? I am a member ot the AOA, and what does that tell me? How many in each newsletter that left? One? Two? Three? 10 would be 0.3 %. 35 would be 1 %. Enough to force the company back to the table?
So, again and again, I want you to be right! I really do! But should I just take your word? And if I ask for data I am too "thick to comprehend"? Do you not see the absurdity of your insult? All I want from you are hard facts. And the best of all, you want ME to do the research? Really?
For YOUR claim?
You claim our attrition rate is higher than elsewhere.
Ok, how do you know that?
What are the numbers elsewhere?
Do you have any statistics from Emirates? qatar? Etihad? Korean?
Easyjet? Jetstar? Air Asia? Hong Kong Airlines?
Teetering at the brink of resigning?Really?
A penny for every pilot that " thinks about leaving". A penny!
ALL but ONE of the MAN guys will come to HKG. ALL BUT ONE.
Wake up!
PS Precisely because of these baseless claims you guys thought we have leverage enough to get a better deal. Precisely because of this hybris you rejected a contract that would safeguard us now until the hedging losses are gone and profits back. And look where we are now. Exactly where I TOLD YOU we would be. Remember last year when a lot of you said the Americans will leave in drones? And? I WAS RIGHT. They did not.
Our job is unique, we don't have an office, we live spread out over the globe, we spend hours with people we don't know. This is the perfect breeding ground for rumors. My aim is to bring some substance into these discussions, to force you guys to look at evidence rather than hearsay and flight deck gossip.
And I am the fool?
where are the numbers to back up
your statement?
I look like a fool?
YOU make a claim, YOU have to show the data to proof it.
So, how many did resign this year?
How many last year, the year before, etc?
Of course the absolute number of people resigning is higher today than 10 or 15 years ago, the airline is twice as big now.
All that counts is the percentage.
I am here for more than a decade. I don't see a trend. There were always people leaving, every single year since I joined. I move up the list at a pretty constant rate. Does that make me thick in your opinion? I am a member ot the AOA, and what does that tell me? How many in each newsletter that left? One? Two? Three? 10 would be 0.3 %. 35 would be 1 %. Enough to force the company back to the table?
So, again and again, I want you to be right! I really do! But should I just take your word? And if I ask for data I am too "thick to comprehend"? Do you not see the absurdity of your insult? All I want from you are hard facts. And the best of all, you want ME to do the research? Really?
For YOUR claim?
You claim our attrition rate is higher than elsewhere.
Ok, how do you know that?
What are the numbers elsewhere?
Do you have any statistics from Emirates? qatar? Etihad? Korean?
Easyjet? Jetstar? Air Asia? Hong Kong Airlines?
Teetering at the brink of resigning?Really?
A penny for every pilot that " thinks about leaving". A penny!
ALL but ONE of the MAN guys will come to HKG. ALL BUT ONE.
Wake up!
PS Precisely because of these baseless claims you guys thought we have leverage enough to get a better deal. Precisely because of this hybris you rejected a contract that would safeguard us now until the hedging losses are gone and profits back. And look where we are now. Exactly where I TOLD YOU we would be. Remember last year when a lot of you said the Americans will leave in drones? And? I WAS RIGHT. They did not.
Our job is unique, we don't have an office, we live spread out over the globe, we spend hours with people we don't know. This is the perfect breeding ground for rumors. My aim is to bring some substance into these discussions, to force you guys to look at evidence rather than hearsay and flight deck gossip.
And I am the fool?
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 11th Jul 2017 at 15:25.
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STW , you stated some time ago that you were done with posting , yet here you still are , with your blinkered views that clearly mark you as management or a wanabe who is simply not prepared to listen to others points of view but continues to spew the party line
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So that is your "data".
"I know two or three guys that left"
Plus retirements, which were ALWAYS between 55-65 , are now suddenly counted as resignations. Now that is just silly,sorry.
Just because I want proof people are leaving doesn't mean I want people to stay, nor does it mean I think it is wise to stay. It also doesn't mean I like it here, nor do I claim people are happy. All I am
saying is: I don't believe we have significant resignations, and if you do then I would like to know how you come to that conclusion.
Take the emotions out of it and look at the data. Bevause that is precisely what is happening on the 9th floor. This is only about numbers, nothing else! It doesn't matter if you like it or not ( I certainly don't).
But I guess you will never understand the difference.
It is a fact that every B scaler is replaced by a C scaler and hence a financial win for the company, like it or not ( I don't like it).
Oriental, why is my view "blinkered". Is that your "argument"? Where is your data? I am willing to listen! I wish you could present the numbers, I really do! But in the end I fear you also just know a guy who knows a guy who seriously considers leaving..
Oval, 4 guys in LAX may be 7.5 % of the base, but they are still only 0.1% of the total. What significance overall have they?
Cpt Underpants, same for you. Your 3 guys are 0.09% of the total workforce.Plus they were not even proper resignations..
Dragon, just imagine we would publicly debate. I ask you for data of your claim, you make donkey sounds. Just picture this. Still you think in pprune it is ok. Why?
I understand many pilots have never been exposed to tertiary education, debating clubs in universities etc. Maybe discussions are also not that common in the military, makes sense. But at some point you guys really have to pull yourself together. I am talking of the absolute basics in every debate, you make a claim, you have the burden of proof. By definition, if your proof starts with " I heard/ I think/ I believe/ I estimate etc" it is not a proof. It just isn't.
"I know two or three guys that left"
Plus retirements, which were ALWAYS between 55-65 , are now suddenly counted as resignations. Now that is just silly,sorry.
Just because I want proof people are leaving doesn't mean I want people to stay, nor does it mean I think it is wise to stay. It also doesn't mean I like it here, nor do I claim people are happy. All I am
saying is: I don't believe we have significant resignations, and if you do then I would like to know how you come to that conclusion.
Take the emotions out of it and look at the data. Bevause that is precisely what is happening on the 9th floor. This is only about numbers, nothing else! It doesn't matter if you like it or not ( I certainly don't).
But I guess you will never understand the difference.
It is a fact that every B scaler is replaced by a C scaler and hence a financial win for the company, like it or not ( I don't like it).
Oriental, why is my view "blinkered". Is that your "argument"? Where is your data? I am willing to listen! I wish you could present the numbers, I really do! But in the end I fear you also just know a guy who knows a guy who seriously considers leaving..
Oval, 4 guys in LAX may be 7.5 % of the base, but they are still only 0.1% of the total. What significance overall have they?
Cpt Underpants, same for you. Your 3 guys are 0.09% of the total workforce.Plus they were not even proper resignations..
Dragon, just imagine we would publicly debate. I ask you for data of your claim, you make donkey sounds. Just picture this. Still you think in pprune it is ok. Why?
I understand many pilots have never been exposed to tertiary education, debating clubs in universities etc. Maybe discussions are also not that common in the military, makes sense. But at some point you guys really have to pull yourself together. I am talking of the absolute basics in every debate, you make a claim, you have the burden of proof. By definition, if your proof starts with " I heard/ I think/ I believe/ I estimate etc" it is not a proof. It just isn't.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 12th Jul 2017 at 02:59.
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Perfect English to broken dribble. Not very convincing (Dominic?).
I have moved up over 30 places in the last 12 months, and all (or most) of people leaving for QF, ANZ, BA etc are behind me. Estimate 80 to 90 total in the last year. Not the level of the EK debacle but we are getting close.
Also heard the DE FO stream has died up, people not even bothering to turn up for interviews. The word is out it would seem.
I have moved up over 30 places in the last 12 months, and all (or most) of people leaving for QF, ANZ, BA etc are behind me. Estimate 80 to 90 total in the last year. Not the level of the EK debacle but we are getting close.
Also heard the DE FO stream has died up, people not even bothering to turn up for interviews. The word is out it would seem.