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Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

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Old 20th Mar 2017, 23:16   #21 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
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11 years to command is now. That will slow (is already?) once our ex-A and early "super" B scalers are retired. The unknown variables are airline growth (or contraction) and attrition of those leaving for greener pastures. Hard to predict those.
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 23:48   #22 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In a jet that's not so shiny anymore.
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Also factor the airport's and airspace's capacity at Hong Kong. The Chinese have not changed the airspace for decades and with competition from the growing Hainan Group airlines for slots, my bet is that in a few years expansion will stop. CX will be going nowhere.

In that case, it will be dead men's shoes for commands.
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Old 21st Mar 2017, 02:50   #23 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: hong kong
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CX will reap what it sows.

On all fleets the CN upgrades are predominately experienced FOs who joined circa 2006-2008 (commands pending). The success rate is and will continue to be high for the next 18mth+. However, many of the JFO upgrades are at present from ex cadets with little or no experience prior to CX, many are struggling. (babysitting the AP anyone?). With training resources dwindling by the month management continue to squander resources, the 150 sector upgrade is on the cards.

Whilst every new joiner doesn't have to be ex Thunderbirds pilots, they should know the basics of stick and rudder, sadly this now seems to be missing.
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Old 21st Mar 2017, 14:41   #24 (permalink)


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Yet, like those before you, you will just watch and suck it up!
QUOTE=Natca;9712702]Yes there is resentment, hate, and anger from SO's. You will go to the bottom of the seniority list and keep getting bypasses for rosters, vacation, etc etc. You are stealing our jobs and letting the company get away with cheap labor. DEFOs are part of the problem.[/QUOTE]
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Old 21st Mar 2017, 18:07   #25 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 40
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Anyone who read their contract before signing it won't have a problem with you joining as a DEFO.
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Old 21st Mar 2017, 19:24   #26 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
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SO's

Quote:
Originally Posted by drfaust View Post
I find it slightly ironic that an SO can be accusing someone of cheap labor in the first place.

The only reason SO's exist anywhere is for cost reduction???
Exactly!!

I suggest all SO shut their gobs. You are nothing more than a wannabe while the rest of uspaid our duesin turbo props, regional jets etc actually doin real flying into busy international airports.

You dont deserve to upgrade over a DEFO with real flight time and experiece. You are the epitome of cheap labour!!
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Old 22nd Mar 2017, 16:38   #27 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In the Auzzie outback
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Half the SOs who've joined in past 3-4yrs have an ATPL, years in GA, turbo prop time, regional time, jet time etc and have paid their "dues".

You paint all SOs with the same brush but forget at some point in your career you too were at the bottom.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Luggage View Post
Exactly!!

I suggest all SO shut their gobs. You are nothing more than a wannabe while the rest of uspaid our duesin turbo props, regional jets etc actually doin real flying into busy international airports.

You dont deserve to upgrade over a DEFO with real flight time and experiece. You are the epitome of cheap labour!!
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Old 22nd Mar 2017, 17:41   #28 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Well at the end of the day (career), that SO with zero experience will have a much greater return on their investment that those of us who slugged it out making crap wages and risking our lives to land that shiny jet job.

I would suggest those with the experience that allows you to bag on those without, use that flight time to get the hell out of this toxic place.

The way I see it, those SOs are far smarter than any of those who've "paid their dues"

Pointing the finger at them as cheap labor? Who allowed that to happen in the first place?

The stupidity and selfishness of this pilot group amazes me.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 09:48   #29 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: hong kong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Average Fool View Post
Well at the end of the day (career), that SO with zero experience will have a much greater return on their investment that those of us who slugged it out making crap wages and risking our lives to land that shiny jet job.

I would suggest those with the experience that allows you to bag on those without, use that flight time to get the hell out of this toxic place.

The way I see it, those SOs are far smarter than any of those who've "paid their dues"

Pointing the finger at them as cheap labor? Who allowed that to happen in the first place?

The stupidity and selfishness of this pilot group amazes me.
Well the trainers I guess?
They are training them aren't they ?
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 01:46   #30 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HonkyDong
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@Luggage, there is a word for people like you that I would be banned by the mods for using. I pity the poor suckers who ever find themselves crewed up with you. You are an extremely ignorant person who assumes that those who are SOs have zero flying skills. You're correct regarding a contingent of locals who joined as cadets however you forget that they have little choice in terms of the experience they are able to build. Hong Kong doesn't really offer the GA/Turboporp opportunities that other regions do. This is their only real opportunity to start their careers in aviation. If you were in their shoes, I think you may find it hard to refuse. Free training, a decent salary and solid career progression from the start. Yes, experience in other areas is extremely valuable and I feel fortunate for the opportunities I have had however they rarely have these opportunities. Secondly, you obviously have no idea about the people working at Cathay. You tar every SO with the same brush. Some SOs joined from other companies where they have extremely valuable experience as training captains on turboprops etc, corporate jet capts and fos, bush pilots etc etc. These guys joined as SOs for varying reasons however I can tell you right now that some took the first job they were offered after their last company went bust or they were made redundant. For most, the priority is to have a salary to feed the family, pay the rent or mortgage, keep the career moving and pay the money back that they fought so hard to save to get their licence in the first place. If you have nothing decent to say, don't say anything at all. If you were a decent person and there are many in aviation (unfortunately there are also people like you), you would know that it is an up hill struggle for most of us trying to maintain a decent career in aviation in order to feed the children and pay the bills. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a 'wannabe', you were one once and everyone deserves a shot!!
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 03:25   #31 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goathead View Post
Well the trainers I guess?
They are training them aren't they ?

No. The trainers are doing the job they signed up to do, not solve the problem of declining conditions.

The pilot group has allowed this attack and many others happen over and over again. And please don't blame the AOA, they only represent the pilot body. And that body has made it very clear that they are willing to do f#%k all to protect their profession.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 03:31   #32 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Average Fool View Post
No. The trainers are doing the job they signed up to do, not solve the problem of declining conditions.
The big difference being is that they didn't sign up, they volunteered! So yes they are part of the problem..Agree with the rest.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 03:44   #33 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 204
True. And it is also self-evident that every pilot who joined the airline is 'voluntarily' supporting the company through continuing in that position. When the AOA comes out with a complete training ban, then the argument becomes valid, not before.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 04:36   #34 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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All valid points. Yes the trainers volunteered.

But I think what it ultimately comes down to is a willingness to stand up to the company 100% unified no matter what the particulars.
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 17:24   #35 (permalink)


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Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Australia
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Hello!

I was wondering if anybody had information on the DEFO interview, or will be attending in May.

Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 10:10   #36 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
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Quote:
I was wondering if anybody had information on the DEFO interview, or will be attending in May.
April fool ??????
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 10:55   #37 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Why would that be an April fools. People are applying and being invited for interviews
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Old 2nd Apr 2017, 02:42   #38 (permalink)


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Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Australia
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No... not April Fools. I'm attending the selection process in May and there seems to be a limited amount of information on the web about the DEFO interview. So I thought maybe somebody here would have a few pointers they could share besides what I've already read for the SO interviews.
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Old 2nd Apr 2017, 12:31   #39 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 204
Sure, come no over. You will instantly be regarded as someone who is willing to undermine an already aggrieved pilot group. You will find that you have been conned into moving to the most expensive city on earth, with a package that will make you live like a commuter pilot in the USA. You will lose your wife and family if you have one. You will be miserable, lonely, poor and frantic. Other than that, come one in...the water's lovely.
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Old 2nd Apr 2017, 14:52   #40 (permalink)


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What a load of bollocks.
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