Hong Kong Airlines (HKA)
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No commuting roster at HKC.
It's a 'green field' project, but they are repeating the very same mistakes HKA made when they were starting up.
HKA could have introduced Commuting Contracts from the get-go to attract pilots, and they would have never had any of their persistent crewing issues. But their penny pinching mentality created a crew shortage which is now blossoming into a crisis in which they've chosen to ride roughshod over the expectations of long serving pilots.
HKC is starting in the same vein. Adamantly refusing Commuting Rosters.
Stupidity and arrogance seem to be hereditary.
I have difficulty grasping why any pilot would choose to fly for HKC instead of HKA where there's the likelihood you'll get some type of commuting roster now, options to get on newer/better aircraft, and on longhaul routes (eventually) and where you don't have to spend your life flying 'plastic dogpoo' out of Hong Kong (in the middle of the night).
It's a 'green field' project, but they are repeating the very same mistakes HKA made when they were starting up.
HKA could have introduced Commuting Contracts from the get-go to attract pilots, and they would have never had any of their persistent crewing issues. But their penny pinching mentality created a crew shortage which is now blossoming into a crisis in which they've chosen to ride roughshod over the expectations of long serving pilots.
HKC is starting in the same vein. Adamantly refusing Commuting Rosters.
Stupidity and arrogance seem to be hereditary.
I have difficulty grasping why any pilot would choose to fly for HKC instead of HKA where there's the likelihood you'll get some type of commuting roster now, options to get on newer/better aircraft, and on longhaul routes (eventually) and where you don't have to spend your life flying 'plastic dogpoo' out of Hong Kong (in the middle of the night).
Join Date: Jun 2011
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To be honest with good housing benefits and 3/4 business confirmed business class tickets (to anywhere) per year for you and your family there's no need for commuting rosters, plenty of people would be interested.
One thing I can't understand from the salary numbers and conditions posted on here, why would HNA pay 25000 dollars to work for their companies in mainland china but much less at HKA?
One thing I can't understand from the salary numbers and conditions posted on here, why would HNA pay 25000 dollars to work for their companies in mainland china but much less at HKA?
Eh?
There is NO housing benefit, and NO confirmed tickets.
HKA won't even upgrade Captains to Biz Class on their own services.
Pilots with families (those who desire a good education for their children) aren't bringing them to HKG because the good schools are full, and way too costly on a HKA salary anyhow.
HKG property values are in a crazy bubble, and no wise guy would buy at these inflated prices. That means a life of renting (burning money you could be using to pay a mortgage with) and living in a TINY high rise dog-box apartment in soulless Tung Chung (with your stir-crazy unemployed wife, and stressed out Chinese public school kids). Not likely to be a happy long term arrangement for most. Maybe ok if you come from 3rd world.
No wife/kids? Suits you Sir.
Until a better offer comes along.
HNA made the (incorrect) assumption that they don't need to pay the Big Bucks to Westerners to work in Westernised HKG.....the 2nd most expensive city in the world.
A desperate crew shortage is the result.
There is NO housing benefit, and NO confirmed tickets.
HKA won't even upgrade Captains to Biz Class on their own services.
Pilots with families (those who desire a good education for their children) aren't bringing them to HKG because the good schools are full, and way too costly on a HKA salary anyhow.
HKG property values are in a crazy bubble, and no wise guy would buy at these inflated prices. That means a life of renting (burning money you could be using to pay a mortgage with) and living in a TINY high rise dog-box apartment in soulless Tung Chung (with your stir-crazy unemployed wife, and stressed out Chinese public school kids). Not likely to be a happy long term arrangement for most. Maybe ok if you come from 3rd world.
No wife/kids? Suits you Sir.
Until a better offer comes along.
One thing I can't understand from the salary numbers and conditions posted on here, why would HNA pay 25000 dollars to work for their companies in mainland china but much less in HKA?
A desperate crew shortage is the result.
Last edited by Killaroo; 20th Jun 2017 at 08:17.
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Majority of FOP is and run by foreigners. But all the rest is by locals. And unlike other places where FOP, being the core of airline business naturally runs the show and HR is the backoffice... HKA HR runs the show together with rostering, and FOP is like the acting clown to whom the crowd clap after a performance and by the end of show go back to their cage together with the monkeys and remaining cattle.
They know how much pilots make, they compare that with themselves, and they just hate pilots. This is it. They are owners of the pilot, and they always compare. They don't care if the pilot role is different. They don't care if a pilot work anytime of everyday, while they spend their public holiday with their family and go back home everyday after work.
As they work on a week basis like most jobs from mon-fri they think a pilot should work as many days as they do, and have only 7-8 days off per month. And lucky pilot having 28 days AL.
They don't know what productivity is. If a pilot does 80h in 2 weeks for sure this pilot will have the rest of the month with STBY and O. No way a pilot will have more days off then a office staff, even that the pilot reach nearly 100% of the possible duty for that period.
Now they pay school allowance. But, if you plan to have your kids in international... that offer is just a joke. They did that to tick the box of the allowance. It is better then nothing, true! But assuming they have is like a near-miss.
If you ask: You have school allowance - YES, we have. Indeed... just make sure you read and investigate properly.
Captain with 2 kids in university spend all the money. No luxuries.
FOs with kids have a hard life.
MPF. Yes. But don't forget its just the minimum mandatory by law. It would be nothing if it wasn't mandatory. Comparing it with the competition, HKA pays 10%. Yes 10%.
Commuting roster... don't be fooled by cheap propaganda.
Unless you live very close to HK, you will be doomed.
If you get the so attractive package C with a very limited offer, taking a place that should belong to a very senior pilot, but they use it to lure more participants in the circus instead, you will have a cut in your already overpaid check and give away your AL.
Please note that you will never have more then 10 days off, this 10 days will be company choice and you will have this every month. Do you really wanna go somewhere far every month for the infinite time of 10 days? If you go far, how long does the travel take? Traveling with ID? Don't forget to come earlier, otherwise you may encounter some unforeseen circumstances, and if you cant make it on time for you next duty don't expect any mercy from HKA.
If you prefer to pay full fare for you and your family, its a safer choice, but you will probably burn whats left from your ultrahigh paycheck.
How many airlines Hainan owns? Why can't they just learn from those with better (at least on paper) contracts and apply it in their HK based airline? Their intention is to lure desperate pilots to a "fantasy" city.
If you really need, of course go for it. But if you have no constraints, carefully think about it before act. Don't rush into a decision or you may find yourself beyond the PNR.
They know how much pilots make, they compare that with themselves, and they just hate pilots. This is it. They are owners of the pilot, and they always compare. They don't care if the pilot role is different. They don't care if a pilot work anytime of everyday, while they spend their public holiday with their family and go back home everyday after work.
As they work on a week basis like most jobs from mon-fri they think a pilot should work as many days as they do, and have only 7-8 days off per month. And lucky pilot having 28 days AL.
They don't know what productivity is. If a pilot does 80h in 2 weeks for sure this pilot will have the rest of the month with STBY and O. No way a pilot will have more days off then a office staff, even that the pilot reach nearly 100% of the possible duty for that period.
Now they pay school allowance. But, if you plan to have your kids in international... that offer is just a joke. They did that to tick the box of the allowance. It is better then nothing, true! But assuming they have is like a near-miss.
If you ask: You have school allowance - YES, we have. Indeed... just make sure you read and investigate properly.
Captain with 2 kids in university spend all the money. No luxuries.
FOs with kids have a hard life.
MPF. Yes. But don't forget its just the minimum mandatory by law. It would be nothing if it wasn't mandatory. Comparing it with the competition, HKA pays 10%. Yes 10%.
Commuting roster... don't be fooled by cheap propaganda.
Unless you live very close to HK, you will be doomed.
If you get the so attractive package C with a very limited offer, taking a place that should belong to a very senior pilot, but they use it to lure more participants in the circus instead, you will have a cut in your already overpaid check and give away your AL.
Please note that you will never have more then 10 days off, this 10 days will be company choice and you will have this every month. Do you really wanna go somewhere far every month for the infinite time of 10 days? If you go far, how long does the travel take? Traveling with ID? Don't forget to come earlier, otherwise you may encounter some unforeseen circumstances, and if you cant make it on time for you next duty don't expect any mercy from HKA.
If you prefer to pay full fare for you and your family, its a safer choice, but you will probably burn whats left from your ultrahigh paycheck.
How many airlines Hainan owns? Why can't they just learn from those with better (at least on paper) contracts and apply it in their HK based airline? Their intention is to lure desperate pilots to a "fantasy" city.
If you really need, of course go for it. But if you have no constraints, carefully think about it before act. Don't rush into a decision or you may find yourself beyond the PNR.
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I don't understand the meaning of this post. Do you mean HKA are extremely smart for doing this? (No need to up the offer)
Does your above example confirm good recruitment tactics? and great candidates applying?
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Sign on bonus for locals
I hear that HKA are putting together a sign on bonus of $4-500k for locals with HK licence and current 330 rating. I wonder whose pilots that is aimed at?? A good idea to save big training costs, such candidates will be "sim and go", just what you need if planning rapid expansion and the introduction of the A50.
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Hong Kong Airlines: Biggest opportunity in the Chinese market is a long haul LCC CAPA 020817
New Paradigms, Budget Airports Forbes 030817
New Paradigms, Budget Airports Forbes 030817
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ACCC VA HNA HX UO Alliance approved ACCC 100817
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Wow. Reading this just makes me feel soooooo happy about my current gig. Pay is good, easy lifestyle, relaxed 10 minute drive to work, tropical living, cheap col, big house paid for by the company, excellent crew, good people to work with, roster up to 6 weeks in advance. I could go on, but I'm on standby so need to head off to the gym (also provided by the company).
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Killaroo
Sorry pal. I don’t agree with your comments here. Option C is offered to direct entry guys. It’s not limited to the senior guys.
Sorry pal. I don’t agree with your comments here. Option C is offered to direct entry guys. It’s not limited to the senior guys.
Last edited by Below the glide; 20th Dec 2017 at 20:45.
