KA A320 does unfavorable diversion
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Dress it up all you like. A Hydraulic system had an overheat. Dan can give you as much data as he wants between the temperature that gives an overheat warning and the actual igniting point of the fluid.
And you would rather risk it being nothing whilst abeam Puerto Princesa? How familiar is that port to KA/CX pilots?
Besides all that. You guys are missing the biggest point of all and I must admit Dan my old mucker has certainly lost some integrity when it comes to his past and future posts on experience levels and children of the magenta.
What Captain decides to abandon the nearest suitable airfield that is a CX AND KA port with an RNAV and ILS because he is 'unfamiliar' with it??? This is the type of question I thought Dan Buster would ask. Or are you getting soft in your old age?
And you would rather risk it being nothing whilst abeam Puerto Princesa? How familiar is that port to KA/CX pilots?
Besides all that. You guys are missing the biggest point of all and I must admit Dan my old mucker has certainly lost some integrity when it comes to his past and future posts on experience levels and children of the magenta.
What Captain decides to abandon the nearest suitable airfield that is a CX AND KA port with an RNAV and ILS because he is 'unfamiliar' with it??? This is the type of question I thought Dan Buster would ask. Or are you getting soft in your old age?
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I'm surprised how a non-event can turn into such a vilification excersize.
What a display of camaraderie and solidarity.
And then we complain when management tries to turn us against ourselves for their own gain. I guess they're the ones with the brains after all.
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Yonosoy Marinero
That man is one of us, and we should all back him up 100%.
They're all safe, and the airplane is in one piece. What is there to discuss? The extra dough KA will have to cough up for the jet A and flying an engineer down there? Cry me a bleeding river. They can take it off our profit share.
It's bad enough that management is constantly breathing down our necks, ready to jump at our throats at the slightest sideways fart we make.
We all have bad days, however much some of us seem to believe they are above all judgement (and races, apparently...), and when those bad days happen and it's knives out with the fleet office, we'd at least want our colleagues to not stab us in the back as well.
That man is one of us, and we should all back him up 100%.
They're all safe, and the airplane is in one piece. What is there to discuss? The extra dough KA will have to cough up for the jet A and flying an engineer down there? Cry me a bleeding river. They can take it off our profit share.
It's bad enough that management is constantly breathing down our necks, ready to jump at our throats at the slightest sideways fart we make.
We all have bad days, however much some of us seem to believe they are above all judgement (and races, apparently...), and when those bad days happen and it's knives out with the fleet office, we'd at least want our colleagues to not stab us in the back as well.
What a tedious blathering resulting in a tedious read. Always ready to hang a colleague. I do however find it incredulous (if its true) that an ERA is written off simply because the capt. hadn't operated there before. What on earth would happen enroute to europe or transpac? A happy ending safety-wise but operational sense and airmanship must surely be the basis of sound command!!
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They were only doing what they were trained to do.
Out of the box decision making is not trained at KA. All exercises are canned with no time to stop mid-exercise and assess the effect of your decisions or the other possibilities, due to unrealistic time constraints.
Current PC has an off route diversion but again canned exercise as it is an escape route.
Just of interest most of the top brass in training are cadets or airforce and before I get into trouble for that comment, it is good and bad. The guys did nothing wrong just were just not trained to think outside the box.
Out of the box decision making is not trained at KA. All exercises are canned with no time to stop mid-exercise and assess the effect of your decisions or the other possibilities, due to unrealistic time constraints.
Current PC has an off route diversion but again canned exercise as it is an escape route.
Just of interest most of the top brass in training are cadets or airforce and before I get into trouble for that comment, it is good and bad. The guys did nothing wrong just were just not trained to think outside the box.
Wow, I cant believe that the point here is being missed. (in my opinion). The point is his reason for why NOT Manilla. For an aircraft captain to say I didn't go to an major, well resourced international airport because I'm unfamiliar - doesn't deserve to hold a command. Arent we supposed to handle anything thrown at us? Good grief - Ive not been to Manilla, that is NO excuse. And if the issue was not so serious and did not require getting on the ground ASAP, and the loss of one hydraulic system is not so serious etc etc, then KK was NOT the best choice, HK was.
Been to Manila lately Rod? 'Well resourced' is not how I would describe the place!
That said, if a diversion was necessary, then I believe Manila was the obvious choice and should have been given some consideration.
That said, if a diversion was necessary, then I believe Manila was the obvious choice and should have been given some consideration.
About 2 years Buzz. By well resourced I meant in terms of getting in there - approaches, that in reality, you just load in the box, take your vectors, press APP button, down you go. If any captain cannot do that, he should be shot. And that applies to the spikes, AND the Gweillos.
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I'm frankly disgusted to read fellow airline pilots obvious undertones of casual racism towards fellow company colleagues. I think it's fairly obvious what you are getting at with spikes, and Pokemon go generation.
KA's a training airline turning cadets into commanders inside of 5 years and the Capt in this event is brand new. Not even enough experience to be unleashed into the contract world. There would be some patience with the decision making process in this event and nobody here has considered enroute weather. This route has had some seriously spectacular turbulence events at KA.
The patience management has afforded this captain hasn't been witnessed here on pprune and the racial undertones of some posters is an ugly disgrace. Especially when some of the comments show a pretty modest capability themselves. You can sit pretty in a legacy carrier but I doubt you would keep your job in most airlines diverting to an ERA with a single HYD overheat on an A320.
I remember when this type of good guff was taught. Some guys above have been watching too many WW2 movies; even under pressure due system damage, in mist or spray form, the flashpoint of modern HYD fluids three times the ECAM value overheat value .
Non-technical skills are an emerging issue under the pressure of rapid upgrades. I've mentioned this before, just recently, on another thread where the pilots of KA have been scrutinized for their decision making under pressure. CRM has not evolved nor kept pace with the industry locally- it was well behind when I started here and progress has only been TEM. The decision making template taught seems flawed lacking thorough crew assessment of risk- the CLEAR model- and is little more than a decades old, elemental OODA loop, that is out of place in the modern operation with new factors at play such as less autonomy and more operational control and media hyper-sensitivity. Now consider a culture of self-induced fuel pressure due paranoia and a reporting culture so badly shutdown that the ability to learn the lessons of others is at a modest level. To pick up in these areas would need external assistance.
The patience management has afforded this captain hasn't been witnessed here on pprune and the racial undertones of some posters is an ugly disgrace. Especially when some of the comments show a pretty modest capability themselves. You can sit pretty in a legacy carrier but I doubt you would keep your job in most airlines diverting to an ERA with a single HYD overheat on an A320.
The o/heat hydraulic caution comes on at >95c. Aviation hydraulic fluid auto ignites at around 475C. You've turned the pumps off as part of the ECAM, the hydraulic fluid is just sitting there now. How will it ignite without some other warning giving you a clue? Wheel well fire, engine fir
Non-technical skills are an emerging issue under the pressure of rapid upgrades. I've mentioned this before, just recently, on another thread where the pilots of KA have been scrutinized for their decision making under pressure. CRM has not evolved nor kept pace with the industry locally- it was well behind when I started here and progress has only been TEM. The decision making template taught seems flawed lacking thorough crew assessment of risk- the CLEAR model- and is little more than a decades old, elemental OODA loop, that is out of place in the modern operation with new factors at play such as less autonomy and more operational control and media hyper-sensitivity. Now consider a culture of self-induced fuel pressure due paranoia and a reporting culture so badly shutdown that the ability to learn the lessons of others is at a modest level. To pick up in these areas would need external assistance.
Last edited by Gnadenburg; 30th Aug 2016 at 03:31.
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and nobody here has considered enroute weather. This route has had some seriously spectacular turbulence events at KA.
Even if there was none it shows the armchair heroes aren't in full possession of the facts.
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The plan from day one, was to create a Hong Kong airline run by locals, with the original experienced expats passing on their skills and knowledge to cadets and other staff.
"KA's a training airline turning cadets into commanders", correct but that's where it stops.
The local group of pilots have completely missed out on the experience to be gained from participating in training, flight operations management, DPA committee work (negotiations and other business).
Where is the integration after all these 30+ years?
"KA's a training airline turning cadets into commanders", correct but that's where it stops.
The local group of pilots have completely missed out on the experience to be gained from participating in training, flight operations management, DPA committee work (negotiations and other business).
Where is the integration after all these 30+ years?
Last edited by tsimbeit; 30th Aug 2016 at 09:14.
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ACMS read my comments again, yes it is supposed to be our bread and butter but obviously the system does not allow this to develop naturally.