CX axing KL; 5 A330s to KA
So where on earth are KA going to get the pilots to operate these sectors from?
Last edited by Captain Dart; 17th Aug 2016 at 00:02.
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Not minor at all. Every SO/FO is taking a huge hit financially and in terms of career progression. No matter how you try to twist it or polish it, SO/FOs are carrying 100% of the load.
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No matter how you try to twist it or polish it, SO/FOs are carrying 100% of the load.
And I'm not just talking cash in the benefit/suffer matrix. Long term health issues from roster abuse is the big red flag
"Every SO/FO is taking a huge hit financially and in terms of career progression."
That happened when they chose to join CX on local terms!
In 2019ish when all of the COS99 FO's have had a crack at command and thus no command bypass pay being payed, the company will extend COS99 RA to 65+ and these local terms SO/FO will be blaming the senior pilots again!
The reality is that it is CX, and the local terms these SO/FO accepted, that is screwing them!
That happened when they chose to join CX on local terms!
In 2019ish when all of the COS99 FO's have had a crack at command and thus no command bypass pay being payed, the company will extend COS99 RA to 65+ and these local terms SO/FO will be blaming the senior pilots again!
The reality is that it is CX, and the local terms these SO/FO accepted, that is screwing them!
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Buzz
Not just the LEPS, it's all the FO/SOs that are taking the hit.
Farman,
I think most people accept the terms they joined on. The problem is we are delaying our own promotions with a training ban that no one got to vote on. The TB just appeared. We are delaying upgrades by potentially a year or so in order to possibly get 1 hour extra sleep on a Europe flight. Lots of guys/girls would rather the upgrade.
Not just the LEPS, it's all the FO/SOs that are taking the hit.
Farman,
I think most people accept the terms they joined on. The problem is we are delaying our own promotions with a training ban that no one got to vote on. The TB just appeared. We are delaying upgrades by potentially a year or so in order to possibly get 1 hour extra sleep on a Europe flight. Lots of guys/girls would rather the upgrade.
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I tip my hat to you, xwing.
You are doing a bang-up job as a management plant, much better than the many who have trodden this path before you. Much more subtle; more (apparently) thoughtful.
Keep it up, or not. Your arguments remain weak and illogical and many people can see beyond them.
You are doing a bang-up job as a management plant, much better than the many who have trodden this path before you. Much more subtle; more (apparently) thoughtful.
Keep it up, or not. Your arguments remain weak and illogical and many people can see beyond them.
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What exactly is the end goal that justifies delaying upgrades and a payrise? All I hear is the very vague "rostering" and that apparently pilots are dying by the 1000s due to fatigue.
Anyone on the 777 can't complain at all; they get most of the month off then sleep in the bunk for half their duty anyway. Bus and 74 work harder but nothing worth delaying an upgrade for.
Anyone on the 777 can't complain at all; they get most of the month off then sleep in the bunk for half their duty anyway. Bus and 74 work harder but nothing worth delaying an upgrade for.
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Xwing,
If you really are crew and not a management plant then the AOA just saved you from yourself.
You are obviously 777 because I can assure you that Airbus and 744 crew would happily delay upgrades for a lifestyle improvement. The rosters are literally killing us (as you should know from the NTC's).
Short term pain for long term gain. You think like a bonus driven manager ie. short term.
If you really are crew and not a management plant then the AOA just saved you from yourself.
You are obviously 777 because I can assure you that Airbus and 744 crew would happily delay upgrades for a lifestyle improvement. The rosters are literally killing us (as you should know from the NTC's).
Short term pain for long term gain. You think like a bonus driven manager ie. short term.
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Tiger,
Define "short term"? It's been nearly 2 years and there is no end in sight.
If it was put to the membership "are you happy to delay your upgrade for over a year in order to possibly get an extra hour of sleep on a Europe flight" I think you know what the result would be. No way it's as bad and fatiguing as you're saying. If you find it that bad it's because you have other problems causing it.
Define "short term"? It's been nearly 2 years and there is no end in sight.
If it was put to the membership "are you happy to delay your upgrade for over a year in order to possibly get an extra hour of sleep on a Europe flight" I think you know what the result would be. No way it's as bad and fatiguing as you're saying. If you find it that bad it's because you have other problems causing it.
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Tiger,
Define "short term"? It's been nearly 2 years and there is no end in sight.
If it was put to the membership "are you happy to delay your upgrade for over a year in order to possibly get an extra hour of sleep on a Europe flight" I think you know what the result would be. No way it's as bad and fatiguing as you're saying. If you find it that bad it's because you have other problems causing it.
Define "short term"? It's been nearly 2 years and there is no end in sight.
If it was put to the membership "are you happy to delay your upgrade for over a year in order to possibly get an extra hour of sleep on a Europe flight" I think you know what the result would be. No way it's as bad and fatiguing as you're saying. If you find it that bad it's because you have other problems causing it.
One extra year of being an FO is nothing compared to 30 years of being worked to death.
3h of 'sleep' then 8h of work before a landing in a typhoon, or 5h of 'sleep' and 6h of work, it's a very big difference. You'll understand when you'll get older.
And if you're complaining about your JFO upgrade, just give it a rest.
From 0h to 777 FO in 3 years, and it's still not fast enough for you? Get a grip.
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Kirk,
Would have been nice to get a say in whether we were prepared to delay our upgrade for the rostering. If it was put to the membership do we want the TB to remain I bet the majority would say no. Obviously all captains (except those wanting to go in training) would say yes lets keep it forever-and-a-day because it has no negative effect on them whatsoever.
You say we are being worked to death. Who of our main competitors has it significantly better than us? This is the job of being a pilot, you have to work through the night at different times through the month.
Would have been nice to get a say in whether we were prepared to delay our upgrade for the rostering. If it was put to the membership do we want the TB to remain I bet the majority would say no. Obviously all captains (except those wanting to go in training) would say yes lets keep it forever-and-a-day because it has no negative effect on them whatsoever.
You say we are being worked to death. Who of our main competitors has it significantly better than us? This is the job of being a pilot, you have to work through the night at different times through the month.
