The New deal
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The same old four or so rabid pit bulls calling for a big NO. Well actually Nelson I do think it is a reasonably fair deal negotiated in good faith by both sides.. Contrary to other posts many of my compatriots are going to vote yes. Gosh what will you complainers have to do when the majority disagree with you?
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Guys, come on now, keep it civil. Let's not ruin our resolve by attacking each other. That is exactly what the company wants right now-DIVISION. Again, the AOA signed off on this to be presented and voted on. Some will view it as an ok deal and everyone is entitled to their opinion. So please, let's keep it civil and let the deal speak for itself.
Btw, I don't says Gals because I bet no "Gals" look at this.
Btw, I don't says Gals because I bet no "Gals" look at this.
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I do think it is a reasonably fair deal negotiated in good faith by both sides
You must not be in the AOA, otherwise it would be blatantly apparent to you that there are many who are against this agreement.
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Trefalgar: IQ test for you... The company offers you between 2 and 6 weeks free additional leave (yes CN"s had to pay for 1 week), the bastards! How dare the company treat me with such contempt and call it SLS! Glad you are such a company man and would prefer to work for the money and not take the gift.
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You must not be in the AOA, otherwise it would be blatantly apparent to you that there are many who are against this agreement.
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Not a CX'er.....but have been. These days I negotiate for companies against militant unions.
You appear to be in a good position with CC/TB. My advice would be a no vote. Send your negotiators back to the table with a clear message that the first deal wasn't good enough. No company puts their best offer on the table in round one.
CX have offered a package that they feel 'might' have a chance to get across the line. They will now be relying on people worrying their way into a yes vote.
Good luck. Don't piss away a strong position.
You appear to be in a good position with CC/TB. My advice would be a no vote. Send your negotiators back to the table with a clear message that the first deal wasn't good enough. No company puts their best offer on the table in round one.
CX have offered a package that they feel 'might' have a chance to get across the line. They will now be relying on people worrying their way into a yes vote.
Good luck. Don't piss away a strong position.
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Grivation
Unfortunately at CX these days the rank and file is filled with shortsighted spiky hair types couple this with an AOA GC that is about to sell us out again over HKPA
I thought this was and RP fight! FFS
Anyway History repeats....over and over
Unfortunately at CX these days the rank and file is filled with shortsighted spiky hair types couple this with an AOA GC that is about to sell us out again over HKPA
I thought this was and RP fight! FFS
Anyway History repeats....over and over
its£5perworddammit
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History repeats indeed.
Remember how, in the days before HKPA, SLS was sold off for everyone, in return for 25 yr housing for those with housing, and f-all for everyone else? And how it, to add insult to injury, was arranged to be paid for by carving it out of everyones basic salary, but not a dime out of housing for those with housing? Meaning those without housing, those with the least take home pay to start with, took the biggest hit in percentage pay with nothing to gain in return, while those already with housing not only get to reap all the promised benefits, but get it while getting their full housing paid for in the meantime.
It actually all worked out at the end with no one faring much better or worse. Perhaps it was a form of karmic justice?
On the positive side, I came away with a great lesson learned.
"The enemies of my enemy are not necessarily my friends."
Watch your back(s), Jack.
Remember how, in the days before HKPA, SLS was sold off for everyone, in return for 25 yr housing for those with housing, and f-all for everyone else? And how it, to add insult to injury, was arranged to be paid for by carving it out of everyones basic salary, but not a dime out of housing for those with housing? Meaning those without housing, those with the least take home pay to start with, took the biggest hit in percentage pay with nothing to gain in return, while those already with housing not only get to reap all the promised benefits, but get it while getting their full housing paid for in the meantime.
It actually all worked out at the end with no one faring much better or worse. Perhaps it was a form of karmic justice?
On the positive side, I came away with a great lesson learned.
"The enemies of my enemy are not necessarily my friends."
Watch your back(s), Jack.
Meaning those without housing, those with the least take home pay to start with, took the biggest hit in percentage pay with nothing to gain in return, while those already with housing not only get to reap all the promised benefits, but get it while getting their full housing paid for in the meantime.
Remember Mr Fox when a lot of us busted our nut flying in some godforsaken $h!thole earning bugger all striving to make it to a respectable airline with respectable pay. Remember when a lot of us served in our nations armed forces getting shot at. Housing is what attracted a lot of experienced crew to CX and HK.
No one forces anyone to become a cadet and have your training paid for or sign a local contract that was inferior. It wasn't that long ago that LEP's got nothing so they have gained the biggest percentage overall since SLS and 2008....
ME ME F$#ēken ME. No wonder we keep voting in crappy deals.
its£5perworddammit
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What's your point?
Remember Mr Fox when a lot of US busted our nut flying in some godforsaken $h!thole earning bugger all striving to make it to a respectable airline with respectable pay. Remember when a lot of US served in our nations armed forces getting shot at. Housing is what attracted a lot of experienced crew to CX and HK.
No one forces anyone to become a cadet and have YOUR training paid for or sign a local contract that was inferior. It wasn't that long ago that LEP's got nothing so they have gained the biggest percentage overall since SLS and 2008....
ME ME F$#ēken ME. No wonder WE keep voting in crappy deals.
Remember Mr Fox when a lot of US busted our nut flying in some godforsaken $h!thole earning bugger all striving to make it to a respectable airline with respectable pay. Remember when a lot of US served in our nations armed forces getting shot at. Housing is what attracted a lot of experienced crew to CX and HK.
No one forces anyone to become a cadet and have YOUR training paid for or sign a local contract that was inferior. It wasn't that long ago that LEP's got nothing so they have gained the biggest percentage overall since SLS and 2008....
ME ME F$#ēken ME. No wonder WE keep voting in crappy deals.
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Read between the lines and understand who wants what and why. The answer will be clear on which way to vote. As Curtain Rod said, start at the back and realize nothing is solid except for what is meaningless to both sides. Its about rostering practices and that is the biggest thing we are giving up if we vote yes. No more court cases with respect to cancelling RP07 you are essentially accepting RP15 with a few definitions re worded.
Of course they want the training ban and CC removed for the period of time they have stipulated as it will get them out of the woods as far as training needs. Will anything change with respect to fatigue and rostering that isn't already being done now....No,
The only thing you get is HKPA but that in itself will naturally inflate anyway.
Instinct says NO. Its not a fair deal. Tempting for the HKPA lot, but for everyone else there is nothing substantial for the pineapple.
HKPA guys I assume will vote yes for the short term gain and be conflicted over the RP's. I guess this was the best strategy.
The rest of the guys will be split so there is a good chance of getting 51% YES and that is all they want and the battle will be lost for a long time.
Just re-read the 49rs case summary and its amazing how the same cycle has repeated itself. From introducing a sickness management program to escalating pressure beyond CC and TB. The only difference is the company are actually negotiating with the union still. Its amazing how if you just use a band aid to temporarily fix a problem. That the problem will come back again. Hence History Repeating.
Of course they want the training ban and CC removed for the period of time they have stipulated as it will get them out of the woods as far as training needs. Will anything change with respect to fatigue and rostering that isn't already being done now....No,
The only thing you get is HKPA but that in itself will naturally inflate anyway.
Instinct says NO. Its not a fair deal. Tempting for the HKPA lot, but for everyone else there is nothing substantial for the pineapple.
HKPA guys I assume will vote yes for the short term gain and be conflicted over the RP's. I guess this was the best strategy.
The rest of the guys will be split so there is a good chance of getting 51% YES and that is all they want and the battle will be lost for a long time.
Just re-read the 49rs case summary and its amazing how the same cycle has repeated itself. From introducing a sickness management program to escalating pressure beyond CC and TB. The only difference is the company are actually negotiating with the union still. Its amazing how if you just use a band aid to temporarily fix a problem. That the problem will come back again. Hence History Repeating.
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Just noticed the voting has opened. Couldn't wait to get in there and vote a big fat NO!!! Hopefully a majority of others see this deal for what it is and also send a resounding message....
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From a lot of people I have talked to both HKPA and others. Most have said YES already..... Looks like we are about to be blown out of the water and handcuffed to the wreckage for the next 3 years..... for me its a clear NO. But I am surprised at the interpretation of others.... It really is a me me me attitude that is driving the unity of the pilots.... no thought for the future just grab what I can get now.....
From a lot of people I have talked to both HKPA and others. Most have said YES already..... Looks like we are about to be blown out of the water and handcuffed to the wreckage for the next 3 years..... for me its a clear NO. But I am surprised at the interpretation of others.... It really is a me me me attitude that is driving the unity of the pilots.... no thought for the future just grab what I can get now.....