The Ace Up The Sleeve
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The Ace Up The Sleeve
Looks like the union training ban will be broken. Whatever leverage the union thought they had will be all but evaporated once this is dropped.
Dragon air have official approval to train CX pilots. The approval is for SO to JFO training but it will free up the training resources enough, especially when you couple it with the excessively delayed 350.
Its going to be all over but the shouting in a few weeks. Enjoy!
Dragon air have official approval to train CX pilots. The approval is for SO to JFO training but it will free up the training resources enough, especially when you couple it with the excessively delayed 350.
Its going to be all over but the shouting in a few weeks. Enjoy!
Dragonair are pushed to train their own people let alone ours as well. Whilst this is far from ideal from a union standpoint it is not the panacea you are making it out to be.
Predictable.. target the pilot group who are not responsible nor at all happy about the decision. Why would KA pilots be at all interested in helping CX expand after they have stripped our airline of assets, given us clapped out old airframes and ring fenced our own expansion to china and a couple of other places.
Management must be laughing given that the only real threat you have against the decision is to stop KA trainers from having the jump seat, " we'll show them.. no jump seats for KA."
Management must be laughing given that the only real threat you have against the decision is to stop KA trainers from having the jump seat, " we'll show them.. no jump seats for KA."
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JY. Most of us don't care much anymore. That is why, even in spite of the Sickness Management Program, sickness rates are at industry highs. That is why people are resigning every week. That is why BA will be buried with UK pilots on the April 16 interviews. That is why the vast majority are retiring well before 65. That is why worrying about managements machinations regarding KA and CX are less of a concern than the how i'm going to get my hang nail removed. In the meantime, no more js's. I'm done 'worrying' about what my 'colleagues' at KA or any other company 'group' may think.
I heard it was the DPA thats been doing as much work as possible behind the scenes whilst the AOA thought the KA training just pprune rumors.
Trafalgar is just another big contributor to the race to the bottom.
Trafalgar is just another big contributor to the race to the bottom.
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Ummm, in case it hasn't come to your attention, we already are at the bottom. I don't need to share a cockpit with someone representing a group that is actively undermining the efforts of myself or my colleagues. Oh, and the fact that they (and families) are also bumping same colleagues off of our own aircraft with their newly acquired staff travel benefits. I wonder what they agreed to do in exchange for those?
You are not anywhere near the bottom and you don't come across someone making much of an industrial effort.
Thanks to the DPA on their efforts with this issue. It must be grueling if some of the guys here representative of the AOA.
Thanks to the DPA on their efforts with this issue. It must be grueling if some of the guys here representative of the AOA.
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Been here 20 years. I have never seen anything substantive from KA to benefit me. If I am incorrect in that observation, then perhaps the KA pilots can correct my misinformation. In the meantime, I will continue to believe my lying eyes...
Trafalgar is my case in point of an ignorant thuggery that fuels a race to the bottom. Sure, engage in a Jump Seat war, which would potentially ( if KA pilots suffer a similar puerility ) affect CX staff more adversely. It is the easiest path to take, to persecute and lay blame where it is not, so as to deflect your own responsibility to deliver an industrial fortitude which may risk your current employment.
Anecdotally, KA pilots can have low success with jump seats anyways. Whilst J/S requests when honored are no doubt appreciated and reciprocated ( I have far more J/S requests from CX pilots versus my own CX requests ) , I'm sure most KA pilots would be happy to pay for a seat rather than trouble a pilot who will blame their own woes and failings on an other group. Would someone like trafalgar honor their declaration of J/S wars with a system stated J/S denial of a KA pilot? Sadly, I doubt it !
I invite CX pilots to contact their AOA leadership and ask if the DPA has been cooperative and supportive on this issue. The answer should highlight the absolute folly and ignorance of some of the attitudes here on pprune.
Anecdotally, KA pilots can have low success with jump seats anyways. Whilst J/S requests when honored are no doubt appreciated and reciprocated ( I have far more J/S requests from CX pilots versus my own CX requests ) , I'm sure most KA pilots would be happy to pay for a seat rather than trouble a pilot who will blame their own woes and failings on an other group. Would someone like trafalgar honor their declaration of J/S wars with a system stated J/S denial of a KA pilot? Sadly, I doubt it !
I invite CX pilots to contact their AOA leadership and ask if the DPA has been cooperative and supportive on this issue. The answer should highlight the absolute folly and ignorance of some of the attitudes here on pprune.
Last edited by Gnadenburg; 8th Apr 2016 at 04:29.
Gnadenburg, I am sure you are smart enough to figure out the posts calling for jumpseat bans for KA staff are from the lunatic fringe and more than likely an FO or two who have no say in the allocation. Rest assured the vast majority of us here wearing green underwear can see the woods for the trees. Relax brother.
Trafalgar is my case in point of an ignorant thuggery that fuels a race to the bottom. Sure, engage in a Jump Seat war, which would potentially ( if KA pilots suffer a similar puerility ) affect CX staff more adversely. It is the easiest path to take, to persecute and lay blame where it is not, so as to deflect your own responsibility to deliver an industrial fortitude which may risk your current employment.
Anecdotally, KA pilots can have low success with jump seats anyways. Whilst J/S requests when honored are no doubt appreciated and reciprocated ( I have far more J/S requests from CX pilots versus my own CX requests ) , I'm sure most KA pilots would be happy to pay for a seat rather than trouble a pilot who will blame their own woes and failings on an other group. Would someone like trafalgar honor their declaration of J/S wars with a system stated J/S denial of a KA pilot? Sadly, I doubt it !
I invite CX pilots to contact their AOA leadership and ask if the DPA has been cooperative and supportive on this issue. The answer should highlight the absolute folly and ignorance of some of the attitudes here on pprune.
Anecdotally, KA pilots can have low success with jump seats anyways. Whilst J/S requests when honored are no doubt appreciated and reciprocated ( I have far more J/S requests from CX pilots versus my own CX requests ) , I'm sure most KA pilots would be happy to pay for a seat rather than trouble a pilot who will blame their own woes and failings on an other group. Would someone like trafalgar honor their declaration of J/S wars with a system stated J/S denial of a KA pilot? Sadly, I doubt it !
I invite CX pilots to contact their AOA leadership and ask if the DPA has been cooperative and supportive on this issue. The answer should highlight the absolute folly and ignorance of some of the attitudes here on pprune.
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I would like to second Rice Powers comments.
Trafalgar implores everyone else to "leave Cathay", or use the former "6x7 sickness events" to get back at the Company for some injustice, and funnily enough he is still happy to be a Cathay employee.
The AOA's woes are mostly caused by firmly remaining reactive to Company amendments rather than proactive.
Use KA training when we can't cope, or change the sickness policy, nah, no-one could have seen that coming!!
Trafalgar implores everyone else to "leave Cathay", or use the former "6x7 sickness events" to get back at the Company for some injustice, and funnily enough he is still happy to be a Cathay employee.
The AOA's woes are mostly caused by firmly remaining reactive to Company amendments rather than proactive.
Use KA training when we can't cope, or change the sickness policy, nah, no-one could have seen that coming!!
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Gnadenburg,
As a green pants wearer I was more than happy to have my JS filled by a KA request recently. KA have been good to me with regard to JS. I return the favour. This won't change with future requests.
Rice power sums up what I sense to be a majority! We're not in a KA Cx war!
As a green pants wearer I was more than happy to have my JS filled by a KA request recently. KA have been good to me with regard to JS. I return the favour. This won't change with future requests.
Rice power sums up what I sense to be a majority! We're not in a KA Cx war!
CX-HOR and Hugo,
I agree entirely.
Trafalgar... Get a life. As you implore others; if you don't like it you know what to do.
We are all at our wits end with CX but it is what it is, we have to trust the AOA and the DPA to do what we elected them for.
I agree entirely.
Trafalgar... Get a life. As you implore others; if you don't like it you know what to do.
We are all at our wits end with CX but it is what it is, we have to trust the AOA and the DPA to do what we elected them for.
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As far as having our Cathay Dragon brethren on the JS's, I too have historically been happy to release JS's to them.
I will continue to do so.
It's not because I ever apply for KA JumpSeats.
I've been here 30 years, I'm too old and intolerant to bother negotiating with the anti-personal staff at the various CX group standby desks, who mis-handle staff travel, so I just pay the $$ and travel full fare, even on KA. However I also realise not everyone is that ticked off with staff travel as I am, a number of staff either choose or have to travel subload, and the granting of a jumpseat can make the travel situation more certain for them.
So as for any KA staff who apply for a JS on any of the CX flights I operate, I'll continue to release them, because, and we should all know, it's the right thing to do.
Let's play the ball, not the man.
I will continue to do so.
It's not because I ever apply for KA JumpSeats.
I've been here 30 years, I'm too old and intolerant to bother negotiating with the anti-personal staff at the various CX group standby desks, who mis-handle staff travel, so I just pay the $$ and travel full fare, even on KA. However I also realise not everyone is that ticked off with staff travel as I am, a number of staff either choose or have to travel subload, and the granting of a jumpseat can make the travel situation more certain for them.
So as for any KA staff who apply for a JS on any of the CX flights I operate, I'll continue to release them, because, and we should all know, it's the right thing to do.
Let's play the ball, not the man.
Last edited by LongTimeInCX; 8th Apr 2016 at 11:24.
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It's a professional courtesy to allow jumpseaters.
Unless you are a scab, you should get a jumpseat no matter what!
The question is; if Dragon is doing Cathay work, are those specific individuals 'scabs'? Scabs are the scum of the earth.
Unless you are a scab, you should get a jumpseat no matter what!
The question is; if Dragon is doing Cathay work, are those specific individuals 'scabs'? Scabs are the scum of the earth.
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Not a question of "if" anymore. DPA has emailed members confirming that two SO's will be arriving imminently for training. The company so far have yet to inform their own pilots of this intent