Staff Travel Change
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Swire has played this beautifully.
1. They need KA to help train CX pilots due to the current situation.
2. They give KA Priority 25 to stop them going into Contract Compliance so the above will happen.
But here's the best bit:
KA can't get Priority 25 until January 2017!!
WHY wait a year????
Here's the answer:
They now have 11 months to make sure that the DPA toes the party line and starts training CX pilots (when they sort out the minutiae). Should they choose not to, then no P25!! Simple!
I know for a fact that JT has already agreed that KA can train CX pilots. It's just a matter of time.
So, as I said, well played Swire. Turn the CX and KA pilots against each other (for zero cost), and then gain a way to train your way out of your own home-grown mess.
Think about it guys. We need each other to help each other. Let's be mature about this. Stop attacking each other. We both have lots to lose.
P.S. As a commuter, I'm not happy with what has just occurred, however I can see the long game. For that reason I WILL NOT accuse or attack my KA colleagues (of which I have many), and will keep allocating J/S's the way I always have (fairly and without prejudice).
1. They need KA to help train CX pilots due to the current situation.
2. They give KA Priority 25 to stop them going into Contract Compliance so the above will happen.
But here's the best bit:
KA can't get Priority 25 until January 2017!!
WHY wait a year????
Here's the answer:
They now have 11 months to make sure that the DPA toes the party line and starts training CX pilots (when they sort out the minutiae). Should they choose not to, then no P25!! Simple!
I know for a fact that JT has already agreed that KA can train CX pilots. It's just a matter of time.
So, as I said, well played Swire. Turn the CX and KA pilots against each other (for zero cost), and then gain a way to train your way out of your own home-grown mess.
Think about it guys. We need each other to help each other. Let's be mature about this. Stop attacking each other. We both have lots to lose.
P.S. As a commuter, I'm not happy with what has just occurred, however I can see the long game. For that reason I WILL NOT accuse or attack my KA colleagues (of which I have many), and will keep allocating J/S's the way I always have (fairly and without prejudice).
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Jumpseats are still welcome on KA
I have been very fortunate with Jump seats on CX, and since my command I have returned the favour at every opportunity for flight crew first, then anyone else in the order I receive the requests. You guys are always welcome on my flight deck, I hope this doesn't change for us on CX.
I don't think that a cleaner should be on the same boarding priority as cockpit crew so we should be fighting for that in stead of fighting each other IMHO.
I don't think that a cleaner should be on the same boarding priority as cockpit crew so we should be fighting for that in stead of fighting each other IMHO.
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SWH
How many SO's were employed by CX when Cathay and Swire acquired a controlling stake and took over the management of Dragonair in January 1990.
May I guess, some of them were probably not even born 26 years ago.
Please tell us, you seem to know.
How many SO's were employed by CX when Cathay and Swire acquired a controlling stake and took over the management of Dragonair in January 1990.
May I guess, some of them were probably not even born 26 years ago.
Please tell us, you seem to know.
Last edited by tsimbeit; 7th Feb 2016 at 10:11.
"Please tell us, you seem to know."
No Idea of the exact number, around 3200 pilots on the CX ASL today, I would guess 2/3 of them were employed as SOs.
In the early years SOs were not employed by CX, they were on contract. If you want to push the issue, that is going to cause a lot more bother with DOJ and the ASL.
No Idea of the exact number, around 3200 pilots on the CX ASL today, I would guess 2/3 of them were employed as SOs.
In the early years SOs were not employed by CX, they were on contract. If you want to push the issue, that is going to cause a lot more bother with DOJ and the ASL.
swh
I think we all and I mean we all need to tone it down. There is an elephant in the room but we are looking at the mouse. For the record I get all that you are saying but it doesn’t help our cause. It infact makes it worse.
I know some Swire employees get better staff travel than we do but I was talking about Swire companies like Haeco, HAS, Swire Bottlers, and Vogue etc. Thousands of Swire company employees with PRI 25 isn’t a good thing.
I can guarantee from my mate in QF that they have the same boarding priority as a QF employee and there by default other airline staff have a lower priority. I’m still waiting though for an answer on the DOJ issue but he suspects it’s 2001 when QF bought Impulse which later morphed in Jetstar. Hopefully I’ll get a 100% accurate answer in the next few days after he has asked a few questions.
I think we all and I mean we all need to tone it down. There is an elephant in the room but we are looking at the mouse. For the record I get all that you are saying but it doesn’t help our cause. It infact makes it worse.
Swire already have higher board priority. You honestly thought they were going to do anything that would impact their conditions?
I would like to know more. I remember getting a QF flight back when we had paper tickets. I had a higher boarding priority than a Jetstar pilot. When I have flown Jetstar in the past, there was no boarding priority, it was whoever registers first not DOJ. Unlike QF, for JQ I had to call the Philippines call centre to list.
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Who Cares. You front up to the flight you either get on or you don't. There have never been guarantees. If you want guarantees by the full fare ticket. I feel for commuters but hey they made the "choice". All conditions are being systematically flushed away. There is nothing you can do about it other than vote with your feet.
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SWH, wow, where do i start?
Selfish? For thinking a 20 year captain should be recognised for service to the "Group" and should be entitled to more than someone who has served for two rosters? Ok, then I am selfish. Yes i earn more than the SO, and for good reason. My spiky hair has long gone, my 4 bars are at best bronze, not gold anymore, and I wear the blame as Captain. if you think SOs should get command pay, take it up with your union. I wish you well with that. Years of service should be recognised, as selfish as that may seem to you. Ivan Chu earns more than me, but he gets on an aircraft ahead of me. Remuneration and boarding priority appear to be inversely proportional?? Or does that make Ivan just incredibly selfish?
The staff travel I signed up on was in my COS, thanks for asking. That was stripped with a "ONCE ONLY, NEVER TO BE REPEATED OFFER" that we couldn't resist. Sound familiar?
My staff travel benefits are better than the SOs? No, my benefits are exactly the same as the SOs, I am just a different rank. When that SO is a captain, our benefits will be identical. The identical agreement written on exactly the same piece of paper.
Leave entitlements and travel allowance are COS ITEMS. If you want improvements to your cos, see your union.
I respect my SOs enough to give them sectors and let them land the aircraft, how does that compare to your 'respect' for them?
What staff travel entitlements did they join on? Ask them, they agreed to it, i have never read their contract.
FOs and Sos being fired because they cant get on flights... We cant get on full flights either, And we would get sacked too for missing a duty because we were relying on staff travel to get back. No different there.
Selfish? For thinking a 20 year captain should be recognised for service to the "Group" and should be entitled to more than someone who has served for two rosters? Ok, then I am selfish. Yes i earn more than the SO, and for good reason. My spiky hair has long gone, my 4 bars are at best bronze, not gold anymore, and I wear the blame as Captain. if you think SOs should get command pay, take it up with your union. I wish you well with that. Years of service should be recognised, as selfish as that may seem to you. Ivan Chu earns more than me, but he gets on an aircraft ahead of me. Remuneration and boarding priority appear to be inversely proportional?? Or does that make Ivan just incredibly selfish?
The staff travel I signed up on was in my COS, thanks for asking. That was stripped with a "ONCE ONLY, NEVER TO BE REPEATED OFFER" that we couldn't resist. Sound familiar?
My staff travel benefits are better than the SOs? No, my benefits are exactly the same as the SOs, I am just a different rank. When that SO is a captain, our benefits will be identical. The identical agreement written on exactly the same piece of paper.
Leave entitlements and travel allowance are COS ITEMS. If you want improvements to your cos, see your union.
I respect my SOs enough to give them sectors and let them land the aircraft, how does that compare to your 'respect' for them?
What staff travel entitlements did they join on? Ask them, they agreed to it, i have never read their contract.
FOs and Sos being fired because they cant get on flights... We cant get on full flights either, And we would get sacked too for missing a duty because we were relying on staff travel to get back. No different there.
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When Thomas Cook bought My Travel in the UK in 2007, the pilots of MyTravel were integrated into TCX based on their DOJ even tho it disadvantaged many TCX FO's close to command. This was deemed the only fair, reasonable and legal way to handle the pilot body and is industry standard (certainly in EU) I'm afraid.
swh - what your now discussing is your working contract not staff travel, if you don't like the contract you signed speak to your Union don't get wound up over other pilots contracts it's what CX want. BTW most KA guys will have their travel fund cut significantly if this goes tho..
I think we have more issues coming to worry about and I'm with 404 etc that we need to stand together.
swh - what your now discussing is your working contract not staff travel, if you don't like the contract you signed speak to your Union don't get wound up over other pilots contracts it's what CX want. BTW most KA guys will have their travel fund cut significantly if this goes tho..
I think we have more issues coming to worry about and I'm with 404 etc that we need to stand together.
When Thomas Cook bought My Travel in the UK in 2007, the pilots of MyTravel were integrated into TCX based on their DOJ even tho it disadvantaged many TCX FO's close to command.
You do not work for CX.
swh - what your now discussing is your working contract not staff travel, if you don't like the contract you signed speak to your Union don't get wound up over other pilots contracts it's what CX want. BTW most KA guys will have their travel fund cut significantly if this goes tho..
CX do not have a travel fund, we have FOCs, which is supposed to get us back to our port FOC. The FOC however is not free nor does it guarantee class of travel, all fees and taxes are paid by the officer. CN are downgraded to Y even when fully confirmed 4B/11B without compensation or return of the FOC. The reason a CN may be downgraded is to accommodate a KA pilot that is on a full fare ticket paid for by their travel fund, and with the CN being offloaded, and FO/SO also on a confirmed FOC could be offloaded.
KA retain their travel fund, plus FOCs, at the detriment of CX pilots.
Its nice how yourself and your fellow pilots basically go tell us to F.O. because something is not in our contract. But you are happy to take something which is not in your contract at our detriment.
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Keep going swh
Let's see how much more empathy and support for CX pilots from within KA you can destroy.
Or perhaps this is one big pantomime? Perhaps you're a satirical caricature of a bitter and twisted CX pilot, trying to emulate The Management but only succeeding in emulating a malignant tumor.
Given where you are and where you're headed, the time for a vote on an AOA request for DPA help in taking a united stand against the company is rapidly approaching. You can bet your arse that your posts will be brought out by those arguing against the motion.
Let's see how much more empathy and support for CX pilots from within KA you can destroy.
Or perhaps this is one big pantomime? Perhaps you're a satirical caricature of a bitter and twisted CX pilot, trying to emulate The Management but only succeeding in emulating a malignant tumor.
Given where you are and where you're headed, the time for a vote on an AOA request for DPA help in taking a united stand against the company is rapidly approaching. You can bet your arse that your posts will be brought out by those arguing against the motion.
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KA Travel Fund
err excuse me-since CX "imposed" the standard contract on KA the travel fund has gone.
Over 50% of the pilots who are on the "C scale" plus the many local B scale do not get a travel fund.
Over 50% of the pilots who are on the "C scale" plus the many local B scale do not get a travel fund.
Terrain
Don't lecture us about unity when your DPA, and people like yourself are tripping over themselves to defend this indefensible change to staff travel.
Your union, and those that supported Contract Compliance should management not grant you Pri 25 (amongst other things on your wish list), would have known full well that if and when CX granted your request, then all hell would broke loose on our side - which it has. YOU, out of your own self interest and greed, just facilitated management in driving in the wedge.
Had this change just come out of nowhere then yes, we'd still be angry, but with management alone.
Quit the sanctimony about unity and just admit you've had a HUGE undeserved win at our expense.
Have a think about it.
Don't lecture us about unity when your DPA, and people like yourself are tripping over themselves to defend this indefensible change to staff travel.
Your union, and those that supported Contract Compliance should management not grant you Pri 25 (amongst other things on your wish list), would have known full well that if and when CX granted your request, then all hell would broke loose on our side - which it has. YOU, out of your own self interest and greed, just facilitated management in driving in the wedge.
Had this change just come out of nowhere then yes, we'd still be angry, but with management alone.
Quit the sanctimony about unity and just admit you've had a HUGE undeserved win at our expense.
Have a think about it.
So hang on again , what did you say or do when KA staff and pilots took their 1985 + DOJ with them to CX a few years ago? You did nothing ! You blamed the spikey hair brigade for your woes and now it's KA pilots .
The big CC items for me are medical and my promised acess to freight which between them were costly broken promises .
The wedge was driven by your Union telling us to f$&) off on the very grey issue of staff travel and don't BS me any different .
The big CC items for me are medical and my promised acess to freight which between them were costly broken promises .
The wedge was driven by your Union telling us to f$&) off on the very grey issue of staff travel and don't BS me any different .
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SWH, personal attacks for having a different opinion, or an alternative view to yours? Really?
Ok then....
"Maaaate, you are right! It was me down the plaza! i nearly didn't recognise you! But when I saw that Cathay tracksuit, and your Tan RM Williams and your Rayban Aviators and your bejewelled Brietling to dazzle the ladies, it could only be you! The way you high fived the Cathay guys and low fived the KA guys, well, you really showed them huh???"
Admittedly not very productive, but I can see how you got your jollies out of it.
Ok then....
"Maaaate, you are right! It was me down the plaza! i nearly didn't recognise you! But when I saw that Cathay tracksuit, and your Tan RM Williams and your Rayban Aviators and your bejewelled Brietling to dazzle the ladies, it could only be you! The way you high fived the Cathay guys and low fived the KA guys, well, you really showed them huh???"
Admittedly not very productive, but I can see how you got your jollies out of it.
Send CX pilots to Cathay Dragon for training on the Airbus fleet because CX doesn't have enough trainers!!!
What differance of opinion ?
You don't work for CX, you work for KA.
Your COS is still with KA, and that had provisions in it that already compensated you for not working for an airline that can take you to your home port. Your COS never gave you boarding priority with CX.
The DPA push with the threat to go into contract compliance over something that is not in your contract is inexcusable. It has significant ramifications for CX employees.
I don't give a crap about travelling on KA and I have no sympathy for the CX staff who want to. CX staff don't work for KA, KA staff should have priority on their own airline, just like CX staff should have priority over every other airline when travelling on CX.
You don't work for CX, you work for KA.
Your COS is still with KA, and that had provisions in it that already compensated you for not working for an airline that can take you to your home port. Your COS never gave you boarding priority with CX.
The DPA push with the threat to go into contract compliance over something that is not in your contract is inexcusable. It has significant ramifications for CX employees.
I don't give a crap about travelling on KA and I have no sympathy for the CX staff who want to. CX staff don't work for KA, KA staff should have priority on their own airline, just like CX staff should have priority over every other airline when travelling on CX.