The different airlines at Cathay
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: japan
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The different airlines at Cathay
The different airlines at Cathay Pacific:
Compare the differences of the airlines at Cathay. Those lucky enough to be on the 777, get to go to work 4 times a month and are on maximum overtime. A second officer on the 777 makes more money than an Airbus FO. A 777 FO makes more money than an Airbus captain.
The Airbus crews are doing up to to 30+ sectors in a month with minimum days off generally two pilot back of the clock to destinations like India and the the middle east or constant night turn arounds. Any good trip that comes to the airbus like a long stay in Japan are usually then given to the 777.
The 777 crews do 8 sectors in a month to Europe and NAM and half of that is in the bunk. The 777 crews hit their 900 hours and get a month or two off. The Airbus crews get their rosters manipulated by crew control if they look like going one hour into overtime to save the company money. There is plenty of scope to manipulate the Airbus rosters as there are so many sectors. 10+ roster changes in a month is not uncommon.
The Airbus crews doing 4 times as many sectors are far more likely to be called in to the office for their fuel uplift due to doing many more sectors in poor weather and to poor destinations. The 777 office looks after the concerns of their crews while the Airbus office does not. If you're on the Airbus, don't delay a pick up just because you couldn't sleep during the day after a night flight out and you're facing another night flight back to Hong Kong and you're not rested. An invitation to visit the office is coming your way. The minimum days off of the Airbus roster are spent just catching up on some sleep before it all starts again.
Not criticizing the 777 guys, best of luck to you. I am criticizing the situation on the Airbus. At least the freighter guys have the Boeing office looking after them.
Compare the differences of the airlines at Cathay. Those lucky enough to be on the 777, get to go to work 4 times a month and are on maximum overtime. A second officer on the 777 makes more money than an Airbus FO. A 777 FO makes more money than an Airbus captain.
The Airbus crews are doing up to to 30+ sectors in a month with minimum days off generally two pilot back of the clock to destinations like India and the the middle east or constant night turn arounds. Any good trip that comes to the airbus like a long stay in Japan are usually then given to the 777.
The 777 crews do 8 sectors in a month to Europe and NAM and half of that is in the bunk. The 777 crews hit their 900 hours and get a month or two off. The Airbus crews get their rosters manipulated by crew control if they look like going one hour into overtime to save the company money. There is plenty of scope to manipulate the Airbus rosters as there are so many sectors. 10+ roster changes in a month is not uncommon.
The Airbus crews doing 4 times as many sectors are far more likely to be called in to the office for their fuel uplift due to doing many more sectors in poor weather and to poor destinations. The 777 office looks after the concerns of their crews while the Airbus office does not. If you're on the Airbus, don't delay a pick up just because you couldn't sleep during the day after a night flight out and you're facing another night flight back to Hong Kong and you're not rested. An invitation to visit the office is coming your way. The minimum days off of the Airbus roster are spent just catching up on some sleep before it all starts again.
Not criticizing the 777 guys, best of luck to you. I am criticizing the situation on the Airbus. At least the freighter guys have the Boeing office looking after them.
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
prunedude,
Have you ever been summoned to explain your fuel decisions? I put on what 'we' want (the FO, sometimes the SO, and I) and don't worry about it. The day my fuel decision gets questioned is the day i will forever load CFP fuel!
You are right about the two different airlines though. How on earth we haven't managed to get sector pay or credit from sign-on or duty pay for the 747 especially, god only knows.
Have you ever been summoned to explain your fuel decisions? I put on what 'we' want (the FO, sometimes the SO, and I) and don't worry about it. The day my fuel decision gets questioned is the day i will forever load CFP fuel!
You are right about the two different airlines though. How on earth we haven't managed to get sector pay or credit from sign-on or duty pay for the 747 especially, god only knows.
SM,
Total BS - back in the days the 777 didn't have all these regional red eyes as well as midnight departures to regional destinations (BKK, 2x SIN, KL, NRT, KIX, 2x JKT and the new 3am SUB).
There was also a lot less India than the 330 is doing now (2x DEL, MAA, HYD and lots of BOM).
We don't need to remind you that ten years ago the 777 was parked by 11pm and the pilots were at the bar before getting a good night's sleep.
AB
Total BS - back in the days the 777 didn't have all these regional red eyes as well as midnight departures to regional destinations (BKK, 2x SIN, KL, NRT, KIX, 2x JKT and the new 3am SUB).
There was also a lot less India than the 330 is doing now (2x DEL, MAA, HYD and lots of BOM).
We don't need to remind you that ten years ago the 777 was parked by 11pm and the pilots were at the bar before getting a good night's sleep.
AB
How on earth we haven't managed to get sector pay or credit from sign-on or duty pay for the 747 especially, god only knows.
Regional pilots in CX have been getting screwed since the Tristar days.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 672
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have you forgotten all the DHL flights the 777 and A330 used to do in the middle of the night?
Besides, most 777 FOs and SOs do plenty of back of the clock flying. 5hrs back of the clock back from India vs 8hrs back of the clock from NA. At least the Indians keep you busy rather than the mind numbing nothingness of the ocean.
Besides, most 777 FOs and SOs do plenty of back of the clock flying. 5hrs back of the clock back from India vs 8hrs back of the clock from NA. At least the Indians keep you busy rather than the mind numbing nothingness of the ocean.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 672
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok well 15hr+ flight time with the cruise split into two is 7hrs in the bunk, if the FO is in the control seat for takeoff and landing and pre-flight prep then total can be over 8hrs in the seat, albeit not all in the cruise obviously.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Groan. Oh..OK I will bite.
Get some time in...
In my early years on the 777, our rosters had all the current issues that some (not all) of the Airbus guys are now whinging about.
In summary the 777 during the early to mid 2000's featured
- Grossly unproductive rosters generating only 60-70 hours credit hours per month.
- Never more than the minimum 7 days off in 28.
- Plenty of DHL red-eye flying to SIN, KIX, ICN etc.
- Plenty of Split duties, regional PX, Sim Crew-ups
- Lot's of time sitting in hotels far from home. I fondly remember the times in BKK, BOM, PEN etc. But there was not much to do in ICN, NRT, TPE etc for 30+ hours in winter. I had a young family at the time and that wasted time away from home was really painful. These were the days before free Wi-Fi, whats-app and face-time. During that period my 744 and Airbus mates had little sympathy for me.
The most sought after 777 trip in those times was the Bahrain-Riyadh triangle over 3 or 4 days, simply because it generated some credit. Alternatively the 2 crew HKG-BAH-DXB and return pattern was also relatively productive. They were the most popular requests!
I didn't complain, largely because I was desperate for a change after doing Relief on the 744 back over much of 18th century. Also, we had a CP (IW) who was a real "leader" and was one of very few CX Pilot Managers who has been worth following.
Times change.
Before my time there were bitter disputes between Crew over the Convair lifestyle and pay etc versus 707 and then subsequently the Tri-motor versus 747. Previous generations fought the good fight and ensured that we now enjoy "common jet salary".
While we now have a single salary for each fleet, significant overtime pay etc periodically falls into the hands of a few who are in the right place (rank/fleet etc) at the right time. This will always be the way. Currently I may be the "king of the castle", but a year or two from now this will switch to another pilot on another fleet. The best of luck to him!
Regarding the mob who craw "the 777 never had it so bad as the Airbus has it now..".
Number 1. Get some time in.
Number 2. Grow up and stop focusing on your self.
Number 3. I recommend that you join the AOA and start to consider the role, hopes, and contractual position of others outside your own narrow focus..
Get some time in...
In my early years on the 777, our rosters had all the current issues that some (not all) of the Airbus guys are now whinging about.
In summary the 777 during the early to mid 2000's featured
- Grossly unproductive rosters generating only 60-70 hours credit hours per month.
- Never more than the minimum 7 days off in 28.
- Plenty of DHL red-eye flying to SIN, KIX, ICN etc.
- Plenty of Split duties, regional PX, Sim Crew-ups
- Lot's of time sitting in hotels far from home. I fondly remember the times in BKK, BOM, PEN etc. But there was not much to do in ICN, NRT, TPE etc for 30+ hours in winter. I had a young family at the time and that wasted time away from home was really painful. These were the days before free Wi-Fi, whats-app and face-time. During that period my 744 and Airbus mates had little sympathy for me.
The most sought after 777 trip in those times was the Bahrain-Riyadh triangle over 3 or 4 days, simply because it generated some credit. Alternatively the 2 crew HKG-BAH-DXB and return pattern was also relatively productive. They were the most popular requests!
I didn't complain, largely because I was desperate for a change after doing Relief on the 744 back over much of 18th century. Also, we had a CP (IW) who was a real "leader" and was one of very few CX Pilot Managers who has been worth following.
Times change.
Before my time there were bitter disputes between Crew over the Convair lifestyle and pay etc versus 707 and then subsequently the Tri-motor versus 747. Previous generations fought the good fight and ensured that we now enjoy "common jet salary".
While we now have a single salary for each fleet, significant overtime pay etc periodically falls into the hands of a few who are in the right place (rank/fleet etc) at the right time. This will always be the way. Currently I may be the "king of the castle", but a year or two from now this will switch to another pilot on another fleet. The best of luck to him!
Regarding the mob who craw "the 777 never had it so bad as the Airbus has it now..".
Number 1. Get some time in.
Number 2. Grow up and stop focusing on your self.
Number 3. I recommend that you join the AOA and start to consider the role, hopes, and contractual position of others outside your own narrow focus..
Same in my day. We would arrive in the Tristar and a 747 would be already there. Leave in the morning, 747 still there. No problem because they all looked like ghosts doing that long haul.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
u·nit·ed
yo͞oˈnīdəd/
adjective
joined together politically, for a common purpose, or by common feelings.
yo͞oˈnīdəd/
adjective
joined together politically, for a common purpose, or by common feelings.
u·ni·ty
ˈyo͞onədē/
noun
1.
the state of being united or joined as a whole.
ˈyo͞onədē/
noun
1.
the state of being united or joined as a whole.
STP
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This isn't a competition, but when pay superseded rostering, I knew well that most on the 777, like yourself, had no f&cking clue of how bad the regional roster has become with practically 90% of the flying through a LNP, month after month, year after year. And no I'm not talking about a middle of the night flight to kix. That's considered an easy flight now.
I'm anxiously waiting.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@jonathon68... I almost bit... then I realised you're a troll!
There is not other explanation for the "narrow focus" in your reply
If the 777 was crewed in seniority then your post might have (a little) more credibility, but... it's not.
Happy trolling, troll.
There is not other explanation for the "narrow focus" in your reply
If the 777 was crewed in seniority then your post might have (a little) more credibility, but... it's not.
Happy trolling, troll.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 744
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not a troll
As an Airbus pilot who knows the real identity of jonathon68 (he also knows my real identity btw), I can assure you he's not a troll, and everything he says about the old days regional 777 are correct.
To balance the argument, I can also say that I'm not sure if he realises just how much worse the Airbus roster has become over the last 2 - 3 years.
To close it off, let's all re-read STP's post about "united" and "unity"
To balance the argument, I can also say that I'm not sure if he realises just how much worse the Airbus roster has become over the last 2 - 3 years.
To close it off, let's all re-read STP's post about "united" and "unity"
Join Date: May 2008
Location: HK
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All of the hate and angst generated by the unfair and lop-sided fleet working conditions differences would be solved immediately if the company would simply adhere to Seniority type transfers.
The use of the phrase "common jet salary" is a poor attempt to stifle the questions and disgust at being locked in on type whilst many year junior crew take coveted "senior" fleet slots - when we all know that it is not a common salary... When an FO on a long haul fleet spends 50% of the time in the bunk, does 4 long haul flights a month, has 20 days off, and earns more than a flogged Captain on a regional fleet.
It is grossly unfair, and grossly misusing resources. It also completely ignores the fact that the best training you can give junior crew is plenty of sectors in and around the region in challenging conditions, whilst they are still young and keen... And they still can see that there is light at the end of the tunnel.
The use of the phrase "common jet salary" is a poor attempt to stifle the questions and disgust at being locked in on type whilst many year junior crew take coveted "senior" fleet slots - when we all know that it is not a common salary... When an FO on a long haul fleet spends 50% of the time in the bunk, does 4 long haul flights a month, has 20 days off, and earns more than a flogged Captain on a regional fleet.
It is grossly unfair, and grossly misusing resources. It also completely ignores the fact that the best training you can give junior crew is plenty of sectors in and around the region in challenging conditions, whilst they are still young and keen... And they still can see that there is light at the end of the tunnel.