A Few Ideas......
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Wow,
The Management, there is an upsurper to your position as management here on pprune.
It appears they have instituted a D scale management pay grade, that didn't include grammar, spelling, and a cognitive thought process as a requirement. Maybe the ability to properly set up a chess board was the key.
The Management, there is an upsurper to your position as management here on pprune.
It appears they have instituted a D scale management pay grade, that didn't include grammar, spelling, and a cognitive thought process as a requirement. Maybe the ability to properly set up a chess board was the key.
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Junior man - Yes I think we are all aware of how the world works. It does take a lot of effort to tame a human being into an employee. The first thing you have to do is break the human's independent will.
A good way to do this is to give them a weighty policy manual filled with nonsensical rules and regulations. This leads the new employee to become more obedient, fearing that s/he could be disciplined at any minute for something incomprehensible.
Thus, the employee will likely conclude it's safest to simply obey the master's commands without question. Stir in some good office politics for good measure, and we've got a freshly minted mind Slave.
Peasants working for the lords and ladies we may be, but as King Louis XVI should have realised...even peasants can only take so much.
Whilst fresh / old ideas may fall on deaf ears, without feedback there is nothing and times are always changing. It's all very cloak and daggers at the moment. What was naive was to highlight possible improvements as this was sure to get people's backs up. I was hoping to hear more of the great ideas that other legacy airlines have implemented for their crews to make a good comparison. however they were just few feedback ideas both serious and tongue in cheek to ponder for the management.
Mostly however, to highlight the cost wastage I see especially in the checking dept having now gone through the mill (perhaps even cut the line sectors back to 20 or give the trainers the discretion to put people forward earlier for those experienced or competent chaps thus saving time and money). Hopefully however, the clever chaps at our AOA helm are intensely investigating where the company is squandering money and using that knowledge (and potential savings) to power our own demands ......from every area of the company.
Perhaps I should have taken a different tack with this thread - what are the good things with Cathay perhaps? Things that make other airlines jealous of us;
A couple of flight requests a month, the ability to swop and proffer (standard for most airlines). 84 hrs marker is the big one, and apparently some lifestyle choices with W patterns. Short and long jokers....and that's probably about it. With the cash now long gone all that's left is the lifestyle choices as it certainly doesn't pay to be at Cathay over other airlines now with more disposable income to be had at EK and BA for starters (want to be able to change type every 5 years anyone?).
Ratmick - I'm sorry to suggest a replacement to your 'moisturising' spray, you must be one of the few who use it. However, as my female colleagues remind me, a real hydrating moisturising must also have an SPF 25+ to help protect against skin cancer which I forgot to mention, but thanks for the reminder. I'm only suggesting improvements to what you have already chosen to have in place.
One extra idea and one from the cutting room floor is personal Geiger counters for us - as we fall in the top 5% of careers with high radiation exposure. Gov workers are required to wear them by law. I don't trust the company averages and it may turn out that we need to reduce our yearly flight hours significantly in light of new data....worth a study I think just for the knowledge and the possibility of a what if? given concrete personal data.
Pontius - cruise relief pilots will be utilised at BA whilst the back log of training is complete (albeit temporary) They will receive a full (that's full) simulator type rating and 1, 90 day sim to stay current. They will not however be allowed to operate below 20,000ft (second officers to us but cruise relief in name for them) they will go into the RHS 12 months later or sooner if the backlog clears. Last time I looked we also had heavy time SOs coming in with A320 and 737 time. Perhaps to get on the A350 some of our FOs will be willing to go back in the '3rd' seat for a year - it might do some good to remember ....especially those cruise 'commanders' we've all encountered along the way.
Intriguingly Silberfuchs the prospect of working as a top manager at McDonald's gives a monthly salary of £2770 after tax (based on their yearly £45,00 salary) minus £1000 mortgage, £600 food, £200 council tax, and £200 utilities a person would be left with £770 or roughly HK$10,000 disposable income (free healthcare and education). That's certainly more disposable income than an SO and even more than an FO with a family in school with suitable housing on HKPA (depending on cost of housing) ..........and more importantly, a sorry statement for Cathay.
So whilst there is a chance for some to leave I'm sure all who still can are seriously considering the options in lieu of the anticipated HKPA rise.
Preparing scenarios for future HR interviews, raises another idea about the initial Cathay interview...for some reason they keep the old technical drilling, whilst even Airbus are moving away from a high technical knowledge for pilots. Perhaps it shows a motivation to learn and memorise some obscure data only to forget it the next day, much like the old fashion line checks or a Victorian school - an appropriate test of how to fit in. Here's to learning 8500 pages of manuals and being able to recall them at anyone's bidding. Modern aircraft just don't require us to navigate via the stars anymore....more pertinent in today's aviation environment is a HR style interview whereby we can weed out those whom we would rather not sit with for the next 12 hours.
With that note, and enough sport from me I shall remind those who still have a chance and an EASA licence BA require 350 pilots by the end of 2016, and around 200 the following year. EK are also desperate (just the time not counted in the bunk makes us hesitate just one second, but for the extra extra disposable income, 4x4, cheaper western food with massive choice and the 2600 sq ft villa.........). Management take note when you play your HKPA card (will you gamble the 350 will save the discontent?).
So to those whom have lost faith in aviation and still have time it's always nice to have a re-watch.
http://youtu.be/XozHLoqwp_4
A good way to do this is to give them a weighty policy manual filled with nonsensical rules and regulations. This leads the new employee to become more obedient, fearing that s/he could be disciplined at any minute for something incomprehensible.
Thus, the employee will likely conclude it's safest to simply obey the master's commands without question. Stir in some good office politics for good measure, and we've got a freshly minted mind Slave.
Peasants working for the lords and ladies we may be, but as King Louis XVI should have realised...even peasants can only take so much.
Whilst fresh / old ideas may fall on deaf ears, without feedback there is nothing and times are always changing. It's all very cloak and daggers at the moment. What was naive was to highlight possible improvements as this was sure to get people's backs up. I was hoping to hear more of the great ideas that other legacy airlines have implemented for their crews to make a good comparison. however they were just few feedback ideas both serious and tongue in cheek to ponder for the management.
Mostly however, to highlight the cost wastage I see especially in the checking dept having now gone through the mill (perhaps even cut the line sectors back to 20 or give the trainers the discretion to put people forward earlier for those experienced or competent chaps thus saving time and money). Hopefully however, the clever chaps at our AOA helm are intensely investigating where the company is squandering money and using that knowledge (and potential savings) to power our own demands ......from every area of the company.
Perhaps I should have taken a different tack with this thread - what are the good things with Cathay perhaps? Things that make other airlines jealous of us;
A couple of flight requests a month, the ability to swop and proffer (standard for most airlines). 84 hrs marker is the big one, and apparently some lifestyle choices with W patterns. Short and long jokers....and that's probably about it. With the cash now long gone all that's left is the lifestyle choices as it certainly doesn't pay to be at Cathay over other airlines now with more disposable income to be had at EK and BA for starters (want to be able to change type every 5 years anyone?).
Ratmick - I'm sorry to suggest a replacement to your 'moisturising' spray, you must be one of the few who use it. However, as my female colleagues remind me, a real hydrating moisturising must also have an SPF 25+ to help protect against skin cancer which I forgot to mention, but thanks for the reminder. I'm only suggesting improvements to what you have already chosen to have in place.
One extra idea and one from the cutting room floor is personal Geiger counters for us - as we fall in the top 5% of careers with high radiation exposure. Gov workers are required to wear them by law. I don't trust the company averages and it may turn out that we need to reduce our yearly flight hours significantly in light of new data....worth a study I think just for the knowledge and the possibility of a what if? given concrete personal data.
Pontius - cruise relief pilots will be utilised at BA whilst the back log of training is complete (albeit temporary) They will receive a full (that's full) simulator type rating and 1, 90 day sim to stay current. They will not however be allowed to operate below 20,000ft (second officers to us but cruise relief in name for them) they will go into the RHS 12 months later or sooner if the backlog clears. Last time I looked we also had heavy time SOs coming in with A320 and 737 time. Perhaps to get on the A350 some of our FOs will be willing to go back in the '3rd' seat for a year - it might do some good to remember ....especially those cruise 'commanders' we've all encountered along the way.
Intriguingly Silberfuchs the prospect of working as a top manager at McDonald's gives a monthly salary of £2770 after tax (based on their yearly £45,00 salary) minus £1000 mortgage, £600 food, £200 council tax, and £200 utilities a person would be left with £770 or roughly HK$10,000 disposable income (free healthcare and education). That's certainly more disposable income than an SO and even more than an FO with a family in school with suitable housing on HKPA (depending on cost of housing) ..........and more importantly, a sorry statement for Cathay.
So whilst there is a chance for some to leave I'm sure all who still can are seriously considering the options in lieu of the anticipated HKPA rise.
Preparing scenarios for future HR interviews, raises another idea about the initial Cathay interview...for some reason they keep the old technical drilling, whilst even Airbus are moving away from a high technical knowledge for pilots. Perhaps it shows a motivation to learn and memorise some obscure data only to forget it the next day, much like the old fashion line checks or a Victorian school - an appropriate test of how to fit in. Here's to learning 8500 pages of manuals and being able to recall them at anyone's bidding. Modern aircraft just don't require us to navigate via the stars anymore....more pertinent in today's aviation environment is a HR style interview whereby we can weed out those whom we would rather not sit with for the next 12 hours.
With that note, and enough sport from me I shall remind those who still have a chance and an EASA licence BA require 350 pilots by the end of 2016, and around 200 the following year. EK are also desperate (just the time not counted in the bunk makes us hesitate just one second, but for the extra extra disposable income, 4x4, cheaper western food with massive choice and the 2600 sq ft villa.........). Management take note when you play your HKPA card (will you gamble the 350 will save the discontent?).
So to those whom have lost faith in aviation and still have time it's always nice to have a re-watch.
http://youtu.be/XozHLoqwp_4
short flights long nights
RG, you need to ask yourself why EK are desperate. The grass is not greener there, infact there is no grass.
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Preacher Man,
Thank you for your thoughful inputs and hopefully your want to improve things won't become jaded as you age and find them falling on deaf ears. Successful corporations DO listen, at least in the building phase. But most do eventually go through THEIR life as people sometimes do in general and do decline as these suggestions are no longer considered--or really even listened to or desired.
Most everyone wants to make things better and this is a good thing. So try not to lose this and keep a positive attitude.
Unfortunately, there ARE plenty of win-win solutions which have been proposed for quite some time by professionals wishing to improve lifestyle AND profitibility (these by the way go hand in hand--happy workers are VERY productive workers) which continue to fall on deaf ears. I have no idea WHY but have accepted that this IS the case. Things like stable rosters, a real PBS, preference based rosters, 14 hour unrestricted long call reserve (replacing the previous A-days), (like every OTHER major airline) being assistative in commuters getting to work (instead of our constantly trying to work against them and even looking for ways to get people in trouble--imagine the insanity of a company which deliberately does its best to make it hard for its workers to get to work !), 3-man with appropriate compensation AND (more importantly) fatigue and rest safeguard standards (rather than the hodge podge of crews thrown together at the last minute as we now roster to), and many more--many GREAT suggestions have been proposed by operators and SMEs and rejected out of hand.
The current 'system' of 'continuous reserve' is horrendously inefficient for everyone--especially the company. Instead of a planned and stable flow of assets, a hole is plugged today (or even just for the next hour) creating 4 more later in the week and 16 later in the month. Being stuck in 10-mile scope results in wild swings into overtime (as well as wacky and expensive cobbled together crews--CN, CN as RP, and 2 FOs, etc.) and then sitting folks as they 'time out' or legitimately go sick or fatigued (again with no way to plan any form of coherent rest between patterns; one's body ain't a switch--and the continued effects do take their toll in decreasing resistance to illnesses of all sorts), with this happening often at the last moment to boot. It decreases available assets on ALL levels, as well as decreasing the reliability of whatever assets are left. Exacerbating the already significant manning problem in an ever increasing spiral. Not to mention the effects on those trying to solve a puzzle which cannot be solved--kind of like when you screw up a BC localizer and wind up chasing a fleeting needle which just goes farther away faster.
It becomes frustrating, and results in one kinda trudging along and looking for greener pastures. This doesn't get me down anymore, but saddens me that through short sightedness and self interest at the exclusion of the whole, the powers that be are keen to trash out what truly is a great job with great people and what had (and could be) such a great place to work. It still has its moments and these are worth being grateful for. Lots of good folks, good friends, good places to go, etc. So one CAN still enjoy things.
In short, I wouldn't look for improvement until we see real action; not a few flowery platitudes. I'd suggest you look for YOUR part in this, enjoy things, realize TIME is the most precious resource in life, and don't feel trapped in any one place. We are trained professionals with experience and highly marketable skills.
As far as control, I WOULD suggest you not relish this but come to terms with what little you actually have. We can all drive our own boat from time to time, but in this world one has precious little control over others or most circumstances--and one's time is much better spent in learning how to DEAL with this. This has largely been the achilles heel of the company--not realizing this and allowing it to build toward arrogance which benefits no one. A storm doesn't get out of the way just because you're flying a green and white CX jet. So one can spend one's life constantly duking it out with the storms, or spend a better life trying to figure out a coherent and profitable way around them. Small ponds, large capital, and protective bubbles have sustained it so far but eventually the ponds dry up and the bubbles burst.
Thank you for your thoughful inputs and hopefully your want to improve things won't become jaded as you age and find them falling on deaf ears. Successful corporations DO listen, at least in the building phase. But most do eventually go through THEIR life as people sometimes do in general and do decline as these suggestions are no longer considered--or really even listened to or desired.
Most everyone wants to make things better and this is a good thing. So try not to lose this and keep a positive attitude.
Unfortunately, there ARE plenty of win-win solutions which have been proposed for quite some time by professionals wishing to improve lifestyle AND profitibility (these by the way go hand in hand--happy workers are VERY productive workers) which continue to fall on deaf ears. I have no idea WHY but have accepted that this IS the case. Things like stable rosters, a real PBS, preference based rosters, 14 hour unrestricted long call reserve (replacing the previous A-days), (like every OTHER major airline) being assistative in commuters getting to work (instead of our constantly trying to work against them and even looking for ways to get people in trouble--imagine the insanity of a company which deliberately does its best to make it hard for its workers to get to work !), 3-man with appropriate compensation AND (more importantly) fatigue and rest safeguard standards (rather than the hodge podge of crews thrown together at the last minute as we now roster to), and many more--many GREAT suggestions have been proposed by operators and SMEs and rejected out of hand.
The current 'system' of 'continuous reserve' is horrendously inefficient for everyone--especially the company. Instead of a planned and stable flow of assets, a hole is plugged today (or even just for the next hour) creating 4 more later in the week and 16 later in the month. Being stuck in 10-mile scope results in wild swings into overtime (as well as wacky and expensive cobbled together crews--CN, CN as RP, and 2 FOs, etc.) and then sitting folks as they 'time out' or legitimately go sick or fatigued (again with no way to plan any form of coherent rest between patterns; one's body ain't a switch--and the continued effects do take their toll in decreasing resistance to illnesses of all sorts), with this happening often at the last moment to boot. It decreases available assets on ALL levels, as well as decreasing the reliability of whatever assets are left. Exacerbating the already significant manning problem in an ever increasing spiral. Not to mention the effects on those trying to solve a puzzle which cannot be solved--kind of like when you screw up a BC localizer and wind up chasing a fleeting needle which just goes farther away faster.
It becomes frustrating, and results in one kinda trudging along and looking for greener pastures. This doesn't get me down anymore, but saddens me that through short sightedness and self interest at the exclusion of the whole, the powers that be are keen to trash out what truly is a great job with great people and what had (and could be) such a great place to work. It still has its moments and these are worth being grateful for. Lots of good folks, good friends, good places to go, etc. So one CAN still enjoy things.
In short, I wouldn't look for improvement until we see real action; not a few flowery platitudes. I'd suggest you look for YOUR part in this, enjoy things, realize TIME is the most precious resource in life, and don't feel trapped in any one place. We are trained professionals with experience and highly marketable skills.
As far as control, I WOULD suggest you not relish this but come to terms with what little you actually have. We can all drive our own boat from time to time, but in this world one has precious little control over others or most circumstances--and one's time is much better spent in learning how to DEAL with this. This has largely been the achilles heel of the company--not realizing this and allowing it to build toward arrogance which benefits no one. A storm doesn't get out of the way just because you're flying a green and white CX jet. So one can spend one's life constantly duking it out with the storms, or spend a better life trying to figure out a coherent and profitable way around them. Small ponds, large capital, and protective bubbles have sustained it so far but eventually the ponds dry up and the bubbles burst.
Last edited by Shep69; 21st Jul 2015 at 17:10.
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It seems you have been inside my head, Shep:
Couldn't agree more with those sentiments.
This doesn't get me down anymore, but saddens me that through short sightedness and self interest...keen to trash out what truly is a great job
come to terms with what little you actually have
So one can spend one's life constantly duking it out with the storms, or spend a better life trying to figure out a coherent and profitable way around them
Well said Shep.
Whoever the (very) Senior Board Members are who define and insist upon the completely 'anti Aircrew' stance that seems to permeate throughout this Company has spoilt what could be a brilliant job. Surely it isn't Sir Adrian or his descendants!
As you implied, happy and well paid employees are VERY productive and willing to help.
The Corporate culture (sic) that prevails has resulted, amazingly, in the very people who literally drive the Airline- ie the 'millionaire morons' - actually clubbing together anonymously in order to do the Company harm until they get some respect and proper treatment (CC).
Rosters are produced and maintained in pretty much the same ridiculously old fashioned way they were decades ago. Pay, housing, COS - all cut to the bone.
How sad for all concerned - including the accountants who run and ruin everything for everyone except a select and delusional 'few'.
Whoever the (very) Senior Board Members are who define and insist upon the completely 'anti Aircrew' stance that seems to permeate throughout this Company has spoilt what could be a brilliant job. Surely it isn't Sir Adrian or his descendants!
As you implied, happy and well paid employees are VERY productive and willing to help.
The Corporate culture (sic) that prevails has resulted, amazingly, in the very people who literally drive the Airline- ie the 'millionaire morons' - actually clubbing together anonymously in order to do the Company harm until they get some respect and proper treatment (CC).
Rosters are produced and maintained in pretty much the same ridiculously old fashioned way they were decades ago. Pay, housing, COS - all cut to the bone.
How sad for all concerned - including the accountants who run and ruin everything for everyone except a select and delusional 'few'.
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Wise words Shep. We shall remain ever positive and always hopeful.
In the meantime - SOPS - the grass can actually be greener in Dubai (and Abu Dhabi) with some gorgeous parks (well kept and cleaner than HK)
http://www.bonningtontower.com/gfx/safa-park-banner.jpg
Ok so we may have to drive 15 mins through the desert to get to them, but at least EK will give us the loan for that air conditioned 4 x 4....and the desert can be also be fun to drive in.....
http://uk.tematis.com/1814-3741-larg...sion-dubai.jpg
But the main thing is the current much higher disposable income....worth the comparison again for all who care after the expected HKPA rise (especially for those with, or planning to have, families).
and finally for a little inspiration for the next negotiation meeting, or anyone else who just wants to ponder a few ideas........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s87zEz4Ybho
In the meantime - SOPS - the grass can actually be greener in Dubai (and Abu Dhabi) with some gorgeous parks (well kept and cleaner than HK)
http://www.bonningtontower.com/gfx/safa-park-banner.jpg
Ok so we may have to drive 15 mins through the desert to get to them, but at least EK will give us the loan for that air conditioned 4 x 4....and the desert can be also be fun to drive in.....
http://uk.tematis.com/1814-3741-larg...sion-dubai.jpg
But the main thing is the current much higher disposable income....worth the comparison again for all who care after the expected HKPA rise (especially for those with, or planning to have, families).
and finally for a little inspiration for the next negotiation meeting, or anyone else who just wants to ponder a few ideas........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s87zEz4Ybho
Last edited by Reverend Green; 22nd Jul 2015 at 09:44. Reason: additions.
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Reverend Green:
I've worked out who you are, pretty sure you've been at CX for what 8 weeks now? My words to you, your industrial agenda, 40 year fatboy airline captain arrogance, and basically your utter disdain for this airline HAS been noticed. All of the above won't be tolerated for much longer, TRUST ME. You've come to a country where THERE ARE NO industrial laws, whether they are written in black and white or not. You have been noticed, and might I say reported.
Pull your head in, wake up, shut up, and possibly even grow up. Enjoy being 'a number'.
I've worked out who you are, pretty sure you've been at CX for what 8 weeks now? My words to you, your industrial agenda, 40 year fatboy airline captain arrogance, and basically your utter disdain for this airline HAS been noticed. All of the above won't be tolerated for much longer, TRUST ME. You've come to a country where THERE ARE NO industrial laws, whether they are written in black and white or not. You have been noticed, and might I say reported.
Pull your head in, wake up, shut up, and possibly even grow up. Enjoy being 'a number'.
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I’m sure the top would appreciate the directness of frontline feedback. You speak as if you’re ingrained in a fear / reporting culture, and if that’s the culture here then add that to the list of ideas for change. A company that doesn’t listen has no hope and I’m sure they understand that feelings run deep from everyone.
But yes you got me - I’m the 1000+ pilots on HKPA who believed we were joining Cathay Pacific – the best legacy airline in the world that cared for its crew. We were prepared to work harder than the rest, to be beaten down harder than the rest so we could rise up stronger, to become the ‘best of the best’ for great rewards. To stand taller than the others with pride and satisfaction that we had reached ‘the top’ and to take our place alongside the great aviators we so much longed to be.
Then the reality hit, and our dreams deflated, when we realised we were actually going backwards, that life was in fact unsustainable long term and huge sacrifices had to be made for very little actual reward. That there was also ‘a great disdain’ for us coming in, that this disdain extended from the very pilots we looked up to and aspired to be like. We took the blame for the decline, we still do.
There is of course no arrogance when speaking our minds in an equality culture, but a passion for change that reverberates throughout the entire pilot workforce. I don’t disdain Cathay, I enjoy my day-to-day job and the people I fly with but I still want for that positive change for both the people and the company – I always will. I want us to be the best in the world again, and I want to proud when I put my uniform on. Whilst others may mock, I still have faith in our management. I believe most of them want to see the same improvements for us we desire but I fear they have a lack of power from the very top. Perhaps I am too naïve after-all. As people have said, don’t expect change and if change won’t happen then people will have to vote with their feet. Cathay no longer remains the only option for people in an ever-increasing competitive world, and I think they finally know this now. I’ve already stated I would move on if I can’t sustain a living here – unfortunately I will have no choice.
I know not of one person who doesn’t regret their decision on coming here on HKPA because life is so difficult with a compromised lifestyle. When you reach the top, the struggle should surely cease. There was no agenda to the post other to highlight some ideas of improvement. A pleasant working environment makes a big difference to people’s attitudes, our work isn’t as hard as the old Cathay culture makes it. We remain positive that this once great airline can again find its feet and turn around the horrendous decline, move into the future and again extend the deserved respect to its pilot workforce and reward them for their loyalty and hard work, after all that’s why we came. The current culture is an incredibly unpleasant one to work in but whilst there are still people who believe there is always hope for change.
But when you have nothing to loose…..there is of course, nothing to loose.
But yes you got me - I’m the 1000+ pilots on HKPA who believed we were joining Cathay Pacific – the best legacy airline in the world that cared for its crew. We were prepared to work harder than the rest, to be beaten down harder than the rest so we could rise up stronger, to become the ‘best of the best’ for great rewards. To stand taller than the others with pride and satisfaction that we had reached ‘the top’ and to take our place alongside the great aviators we so much longed to be.
Then the reality hit, and our dreams deflated, when we realised we were actually going backwards, that life was in fact unsustainable long term and huge sacrifices had to be made for very little actual reward. That there was also ‘a great disdain’ for us coming in, that this disdain extended from the very pilots we looked up to and aspired to be like. We took the blame for the decline, we still do.
There is of course no arrogance when speaking our minds in an equality culture, but a passion for change that reverberates throughout the entire pilot workforce. I don’t disdain Cathay, I enjoy my day-to-day job and the people I fly with but I still want for that positive change for both the people and the company – I always will. I want us to be the best in the world again, and I want to proud when I put my uniform on. Whilst others may mock, I still have faith in our management. I believe most of them want to see the same improvements for us we desire but I fear they have a lack of power from the very top. Perhaps I am too naïve after-all. As people have said, don’t expect change and if change won’t happen then people will have to vote with their feet. Cathay no longer remains the only option for people in an ever-increasing competitive world, and I think they finally know this now. I’ve already stated I would move on if I can’t sustain a living here – unfortunately I will have no choice.
I know not of one person who doesn’t regret their decision on coming here on HKPA because life is so difficult with a compromised lifestyle. When you reach the top, the struggle should surely cease. There was no agenda to the post other to highlight some ideas of improvement. A pleasant working environment makes a big difference to people’s attitudes, our work isn’t as hard as the old Cathay culture makes it. We remain positive that this once great airline can again find its feet and turn around the horrendous decline, move into the future and again extend the deserved respect to its pilot workforce and reward them for their loyalty and hard work, after all that’s why we came. The current culture is an incredibly unpleasant one to work in but whilst there are still people who believe there is always hope for change.
But when you have nothing to loose…..there is of course, nothing to loose.
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....so, you came here thinking things would 'just work out'...? Good grief. So, no prior research as to the reality of living in HK on a compromised package? No discussions with those already here who could have told you exactly what you now say you are experiencing? A sense of injustice towards the company and your other colleagues who either don't care or aren't interested?. Wow, great effort at effective career research. Can't understand why you are finding things so difficult. Seriously, CX are using and abusing you, even more so with the coming RP changes. If you want a life, make a move somewhere that you will at least get some proper benefits while employed (Emirates etc). Otherwise, you signed the contract....
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I think we all accepted the conditions because we had to - Cathay was the best choice. No feeling of injustice, but acceptance. Something those who were out of touch with the global industry back then, or who have only spent their career in Cathay couldn't / still can't fathom.
We saw the cut backs world wide, Cathay was no different. We came here because Cathay either gave us a free type rating and heavy jet time, or because we couldn't get jobs in our home countries because of the financial global crisis where lay offs were plenty. Perhaps we wanted to believe that the once Great Cathay still existed somewhere inside itself, and change would come. If not however, we knew the time would come where we could make a choice on any world airline and a decision on our futures will be made.
We're nearing a crunch time in a lot peoples decisions as to whether to stay or move on - purely because we might have to. The company has yet to play its hand on the matter which will send us the message.
But like you said, most aren't interested or don't care.
We saw the cut backs world wide, Cathay was no different. We came here because Cathay either gave us a free type rating and heavy jet time, or because we couldn't get jobs in our home countries because of the financial global crisis where lay offs were plenty. Perhaps we wanted to believe that the once Great Cathay still existed somewhere inside itself, and change would come. If not however, we knew the time would come where we could make a choice on any world airline and a decision on our futures will be made.
We're nearing a crunch time in a lot peoples decisions as to whether to stay or move on - purely because we might have to. The company has yet to play its hand on the matter which will send us the message.
But like you said, most aren't interested or don't care.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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It's not that I "don't care", it's just that it's hard to be confronted with low time, naive, self-absorbed, self-entitled individuals who voluntarily accepted conditions that not only don't provide them with any expectation of a proper career and life, but also put at risk those already at the airline. You played into managements hands, and now you find that it is almost impossible to see any sort of future. The airline business is a seniority game: the sooner you get on a proper list somewhere else, the better your life will be. Not trying to sound cold or unconcerned, only realistic. You made a bad choice. It's up to you to correct that.
short flights long nights
I'm just wondering where RG thinks he can go with all his SO time, when Cathay sends him a message.
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I’m the 1000+ pilots on HKPA who believed we were joining Cathay Pacific – the best legacy airline in the world that cared for its crew. We were prepared to work harder than the rest
Most of you walked into this job without doing any work at all, except rote learning interview questions. Gimme a break.
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In fairness we didn't help to stop HKPA even though it was going to affect us all. It was a case of I'm alright Jack and still is. In fact weren't the AOA, not the current incumbents, instrumental in bringing about HKPA?!