G day workers
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Again, I would challenge your claim by asking you for some factual data.
Do you really think any airline in the world would order aircraft worth billions without planning ahead the corresponding crew to fly them? Seriously?
Name me one example, any proper airline in the world, in the history if civil aviation, that prolonged grounded aircraft due to lack of crew. One.
It is distracting and unhelpful to waste energy judging our management and regarding them as retards. Firstly because I think they are not, and secondly because even if they were it would be irrelevant to our pay discussion.
Let's assume for the sake of your argument that Cathay has indeed miscalculated crew numbers, forgot about retirement, expansion needs, fat fingers hitting the wrong key on a calculator etc.
All that would happen is a slower or no expansion, deferrement of orders,the infamous lost opportunities.
What does this scenario has to do with our pay deal? Nothing.
Or,are you saying you fight for a better pay deal because you are afraid of Cathay not attracting enough pilots in the future?
That doesn't make any sense either.
If pay would be a problem regarding recruitment, they could increase the package anytime.
So, again, what has that to do with our current negotiations?
Do you really think any airline in the world would order aircraft worth billions without planning ahead the corresponding crew to fly them? Seriously?
Name me one example, any proper airline in the world, in the history if civil aviation, that prolonged grounded aircraft due to lack of crew. One.
It is distracting and unhelpful to waste energy judging our management and regarding them as retards. Firstly because I think they are not, and secondly because even if they were it would be irrelevant to our pay discussion.
Let's assume for the sake of your argument that Cathay has indeed miscalculated crew numbers, forgot about retirement, expansion needs, fat fingers hitting the wrong key on a calculator etc.
All that would happen is a slower or no expansion, deferrement of orders,the infamous lost opportunities.
What does this scenario has to do with our pay deal? Nothing.
Or,are you saying you fight for a better pay deal because you are afraid of Cathay not attracting enough pilots in the future?
That doesn't make any sense either.
If pay would be a problem regarding recruitment, they could increase the package anytime.
So, again, what has that to do with our current negotiations?
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 26th Nov 2014 at 09:35.
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They haven't had to raise enumeration because instead they have been focused in recruiting the lowest common denominator. A warm body over 18 willing to deal with the silliness of CX.
Fortunately, that pool so almost dried up too. Airplane orders are about to offset retirements with -400's and the 340 on the way out, so that gives them a little breathing room.
Just remember, EFP does not get a raise this year, just like last year. Don't let this job slowly kill you from fatigue before you get out of Honkers. You'd likely be better off living on a teachers wage at home, all the while, having a more fulfilling life.
Fortunately, that pool so almost dried up too. Airplane orders are about to offset retirements with -400's and the 340 on the way out, so that gives them a little breathing room.
Just remember, EFP does not get a raise this year, just like last year. Don't let this job slowly kill you from fatigue before you get out of Honkers. You'd likely be better off living on a teachers wage at home, all the while, having a more fulfilling life.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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STW...Qatar Airways. That's one. Over to you.
Personally, I am sick to death of being treated the way I am by this company. It is utterly disgraceful. The really sickening thing? I WISH that we had leadership and morale as it used to be, when as a pilot body we would willingly pull together in times of crisis to help, knowing that it would be genuinely appreciated down the track. I WISH that this company could be making as much money as possible, it's good for all of us. I WISH to be part of a company that values it's employees and their overwhelming contribution to the overall achievements and accomplishments annually, after all, it isn't the 3rd floor or the 9th floor that wins awards, it's our front line staff. I truly WISH that the company would see us as an asset and not a combatant or a liability. But I fear that I wish too much and I will never see a period of morale and success as CX did in the 80s and 90s....and the really sad thing is? It would take so little effort to get us onside and back to that state
Personally, I am sick to death of being treated the way I am by this company. It is utterly disgraceful. The really sickening thing? I WISH that we had leadership and morale as it used to be, when as a pilot body we would willingly pull together in times of crisis to help, knowing that it would be genuinely appreciated down the track. I WISH that this company could be making as much money as possible, it's good for all of us. I WISH to be part of a company that values it's employees and their overwhelming contribution to the overall achievements and accomplishments annually, after all, it isn't the 3rd floor or the 9th floor that wins awards, it's our front line staff. I truly WISH that the company would see us as an asset and not a combatant or a liability. But I fear that I wish too much and I will never see a period of morale and success as CX did in the 80s and 90s....and the really sad thing is? It would take so little effort to get us onside and back to that state
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HK- A little bit of industrial China in every breath you take.
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STW - Peach, Another. Cancelled hundreds of flights for the entire summer schedule, reason, lack of crew and unable to upgrade their FOs.
Budget carrier Peach to cancel 448 flights due to lack of pilots | The Japan Times
Budget carrier Peach to cancel 448 flights due to lack of pilots | The Japan Times
Join Date: Jul 2013
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At that time Peach just more or less started to operate, total numbers of pilots 58..
As far as I remember Qatar grounded 787 because of tech reasons, I don't recall any serious ops interuptions because of lack of pilots.
But ok, accepted.
It actually proves my point, since neither Peach nor Qatar is offering an attractive package today. So either pay was or is not the issue, or higher pay would be costlier than ops interruptions.
My main argument is that it doesn't matter to our pay discussion now. If you are right and Cathay is facing a crew shortage in the future, and it would be a shortage because of people leaving/not applying because of inferior pay, then management could raise the package with a key stroke.
It is irrelevant to us now.
It is further irrelevant how some of us judge the recruitment policy in general, quality of SO etc. All that matters is if enough applicants, suitable in regard of the companys profile, get attracted. And if if they don't get enough new pilots, it doesn't mean an automatic pay rise. It just don't.
Sadly, it is also irrelevant what we wish for, NG, although I personally agree with your assessment and sentiment.
As far as I remember Qatar grounded 787 because of tech reasons, I don't recall any serious ops interuptions because of lack of pilots.
But ok, accepted.
It actually proves my point, since neither Peach nor Qatar is offering an attractive package today. So either pay was or is not the issue, or higher pay would be costlier than ops interruptions.
My main argument is that it doesn't matter to our pay discussion now. If you are right and Cathay is facing a crew shortage in the future, and it would be a shortage because of people leaving/not applying because of inferior pay, then management could raise the package with a key stroke.
It is irrelevant to us now.
It is further irrelevant how some of us judge the recruitment policy in general, quality of SO etc. All that matters is if enough applicants, suitable in regard of the companys profile, get attracted. And if if they don't get enough new pilots, it doesn't mean an automatic pay rise. It just don't.
Sadly, it is also irrelevant what we wish for, NG, although I personally agree with your assessment and sentiment.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 26th Nov 2014 at 11:36.
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Sam Ting Wong,
American Airlines Group said Friday that it will transfer at least 50 planes away from its Envoy Air unit, leading to more shrinkage at the regional carrier.
A spokeswoman wouldn’t say how many jobs would be cut, but the pilots union said each plane represented 10 flying jobs — 500 total. Envoy has about 2,400 pilots.
American has been shrinking Envoy since March, when union pilots rejected a contract offer that they said included a pay freeze and benefit cuts. American is trying to limit the cost of its regional service, called American Eagle, partly by outsourcing some of the flying. American uses 11 regional carriers to operate Eagle flights.
American Senior Vice President Kenji Hashimoto said in a memo to employees that the decision to move the planes was based solely on forecasts that the regional carrier won’t have enough pilots to operate its planned schedule next year.
Read more here: American Airlines shifting more planes away from Envoy | American Airlines | American Ai...
American Airlines Group said Friday that it will transfer at least 50 planes away from its Envoy Air unit, leading to more shrinkage at the regional carrier.
A spokeswoman wouldn’t say how many jobs would be cut, but the pilots union said each plane represented 10 flying jobs — 500 total. Envoy has about 2,400 pilots.
American has been shrinking Envoy since March, when union pilots rejected a contract offer that they said included a pay freeze and benefit cuts. American is trying to limit the cost of its regional service, called American Eagle, partly by outsourcing some of the flying. American uses 11 regional carriers to operate Eagle flights.
American Senior Vice President Kenji Hashimoto said in a memo to employees that the decision to move the planes was based solely on forecasts that the regional carrier won’t have enough pilots to operate its planned schedule next year.
Read more here: American Airlines shifting more planes away from Envoy | American Airlines | American Ai...
Join Date: May 2011
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JoBlo. Steer clear of picking on G-day workers until our weak-kneed Association actually calls for it. Anything less than a concerted effort will fail to produce the desired results, as we can all see already.
They haven't called for it yet, so back off.
They haven't called for it yet, so back off.
Join Date: May 2008
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It may not be a flood yet.
But the shenanigans and dishonesty that's occurred over the past 6 months has ALOT of people updating logbooks and sending out applications/resumes.
Folks previously happy have been seeing things they had heard of (as what they though of as simply whinging, legend, and rumor) but didn't believe to be true--now being proven in front of them. And are contemplating a change of direction they hadn't been considering before at all.
Folks reach a breaking point. They don't want to go, but they sit wide eyed at the goings on thinking things like "you have GOT to be kidding me--these are the people at the helm ?!!?" And that other airlines are senority driven (with MANY, MANY slots to open up--for whatever reason) have to make a rational decision to get into somewhere new and have decent senority 10 years down the road, or to stay here. If it comes down to folks being unhappy with staying (especially if it means the next 20 years are like the past year) they WILL leave. How anyone charged with operating an airline at a profit wouldn't see this is beyond belief--yet that's what is happening. Doesn't matter how many toys are in the pipe.
People are an investment--skilled labour takes ALOT of money to make it skilled. And it takes ALOT of money to train someone to replace a mid-level experienced person who suddenly decides this isn't the place for them. ALOT more than a reasonable pay rise and reasonable rostering.
Used to be a future in staying here seemed bright for many; maybe now not so much.
But the shenanigans and dishonesty that's occurred over the past 6 months has ALOT of people updating logbooks and sending out applications/resumes.
Folks previously happy have been seeing things they had heard of (as what they though of as simply whinging, legend, and rumor) but didn't believe to be true--now being proven in front of them. And are contemplating a change of direction they hadn't been considering before at all.
Folks reach a breaking point. They don't want to go, but they sit wide eyed at the goings on thinking things like "you have GOT to be kidding me--these are the people at the helm ?!!?" And that other airlines are senority driven (with MANY, MANY slots to open up--for whatever reason) have to make a rational decision to get into somewhere new and have decent senority 10 years down the road, or to stay here. If it comes down to folks being unhappy with staying (especially if it means the next 20 years are like the past year) they WILL leave. How anyone charged with operating an airline at a profit wouldn't see this is beyond belief--yet that's what is happening. Doesn't matter how many toys are in the pipe.
People are an investment--skilled labour takes ALOT of money to make it skilled. And it takes ALOT of money to train someone to replace a mid-level experienced person who suddenly decides this isn't the place for them. ALOT more than a reasonable pay rise and reasonable rostering.
Used to be a future in staying here seemed bright for many; maybe now not so much.
Last edited by Shep69; 27th Nov 2014 at 03:48.
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She's, the whole crux of the CX mandate towards pilots is this..they have decided to factor OUT experience..it simply has no place in their future ethos. Witness the starter packs we get as SO's..proven to date that as they gestate towards command...small...c.. That to date...no hulls have been lost..bottom lines haven't been degraded as such, so the simplicity of not accepting experience is key in this industry, will become the norm.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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F@ck the G day workers. Every one of them. They are undermining the long term best interests of the majority. Every one of them will pay a heavy price their entire careers.
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Kenfoggo, you sound like one of them. Did you decide a few weeks back to go to LHR, call up crew control and ask them to boot the crew off the LHR trip so you could do it on your G days. And not give a rats arse that it was a requested trip for the crew you had booted off?
Nice
Nice
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Nope, that was not me. Can I do that? I wouldn't mind a trip to LHR. BUT until somebody in the AOA gets off their butt and activates CC which 90 odd per cent voted for (twice), if I was so minded, what is to stop me? ( just playing devils advocate).
Last edited by kenfoggo; 29th Nov 2014 at 01:37.
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Axing of the whole Adelaide course apparently wasn't the issue..it was a complete overhaul of the course, it's content and the way it's core components could be reworked and that included a fast track of English Language level skill. The requirement is to parallel with CTC Hamilton and a wee bit more, ie less. The plan is to reduce the ATPL freeze to around 100 hrs. Ab initial SO's would then undergo in house CX development courses via extra CBT, Fixed Base and sim. Easy J are doing something similar and cadets get an "Easy Degree" in the bag as well, making the academic incentive a higher priority than the aviation segment. Welcome to the new world.
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CC vs G workers
I recentely turned down a very handsome overtime G day call.
Its so annoying to see the G-taker to complain about roster instability and working and then collecting handsomely from it.
There are not many out there, but seriously guys. You need to show some respect to your work mates.
We're in this for the long haul, lets fix this proper!
Its so annoying to see the G-taker to complain about roster instability and working and then collecting handsomely from it.
There are not many out there, but seriously guys. You need to show some respect to your work mates.
We're in this for the long haul, lets fix this proper!
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Disagree,
Just did my third block of reserve in as many months. Not called out once, looked through the large number of flights missing crew, nearly all (90%)filled with G Day workers. I'd say there's at least 300-400 guys calling up crew control to work G days and help the company out.
Has the number of guys working Gs increased in the past few months?
Just did my third block of reserve in as many months. Not called out once, looked through the large number of flights missing crew, nearly all (90%)filled with G Day workers. I'd say there's at least 300-400 guys calling up crew control to work G days and help the company out.
Has the number of guys working Gs increased in the past few months?