Cost of Living
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HK- A little bit of industrial China in every breath you take.
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Cost of Living
After having been whacked with a massive electrical bill, i thought I might out lay a few of the examples where the cost of living in HK is out of control.
My power bill was $11,000 for 60 days and we weren't home for 4 weeks of that! is anyone else seeing massive hikes in their power bills? Is there any ombudsman to complain to, or an independent way of verifying we are using the power they are billing us for?
Anyway, to make this relevant to aviation, lets start listing what things cost here, it might allow new hires to at least apply for work up here with their eyes wide open. We will never stop 'kids' coming in wanting the shinny jet upgrade, this isnt aimed at them, it is aimed at the guys that think they can support even the most basic standard of living for their family, my honest observation is you cant support a family here on CX or KA c scale, let alone the sub standard packages offered by HK express or airlines.
If you come here expecting to live a completely western lifestyle, of course it is going to cost you. But having said that, no one comes here and becomes 100% localised either, so lets look at some basic prices.
Food quality is an issue. With so many food scares, plastic in milk, cancerous die in eggs, re labelled expired meat, fake baby powder, cooking oil made from effluent, fake eggs, lamb seasoned with rat, river swine, yes, most of these are mainland examples, but where are the farms in HK? So where does our produce come from? These are just a few examples form the past few years, so eating local has its risks.
You will pay through the nose. HK prices are high and going up fast.
$30 western loaf of bread
$70 tub of yoghurt
$15-20 UHT liter of milk
$30 fresh liter of milk
$120 for 30 nappies
$60 250gm of cheese (basic nz cheddar)
$50 200gm ham
Feel free to add to this ladies and gents.
My power bill was $11,000 for 60 days and we weren't home for 4 weeks of that! is anyone else seeing massive hikes in their power bills? Is there any ombudsman to complain to, or an independent way of verifying we are using the power they are billing us for?
Anyway, to make this relevant to aviation, lets start listing what things cost here, it might allow new hires to at least apply for work up here with their eyes wide open. We will never stop 'kids' coming in wanting the shinny jet upgrade, this isnt aimed at them, it is aimed at the guys that think they can support even the most basic standard of living for their family, my honest observation is you cant support a family here on CX or KA c scale, let alone the sub standard packages offered by HK express or airlines.
If you come here expecting to live a completely western lifestyle, of course it is going to cost you. But having said that, no one comes here and becomes 100% localised either, so lets look at some basic prices.
Food quality is an issue. With so many food scares, plastic in milk, cancerous die in eggs, re labelled expired meat, fake baby powder, cooking oil made from effluent, fake eggs, lamb seasoned with rat, river swine, yes, most of these are mainland examples, but where are the farms in HK? So where does our produce come from? These are just a few examples form the past few years, so eating local has its risks.
You will pay through the nose. HK prices are high and going up fast.
$30 western loaf of bread
$70 tub of yoghurt
$15-20 UHT liter of milk
$30 fresh liter of milk
$120 for 30 nappies
$60 250gm of cheese (basic nz cheddar)
$50 200gm ham
Feel free to add to this ladies and gents.
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Lowkoon,
Tx for sharing this experience. It is really an eyeopener for me. I was invited by HK express for an interview but i declined. The living cost and pollution was for me a serious drawback to go there. 11k for a powerbill is really shocking!!!
Tx for sharing this experience. It is really an eyeopener for me. I was invited by HK express for an interview but i declined. The living cost and pollution was for me a serious drawback to go there. 11k for a powerbill is really shocking!!!
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Lowkoon Only 4 items in the house could consume that much electricity
Aircons , water heaters, fridge stove / hob
What is your usual electric bill for July Aug ? 5000 per month is not uncommon but it is if you weren't there . So did the maid help herself to the aircon etc whilst you were away ?
Do you have a fridge that runs constantly ? Do you leave the aircons on whilst away?
If you feel it's excessive ask the power corp to install a new meter for you
As for milk and nappies don't give your kids any milk they will poop less hence the requirement for fewer nappies big cost saving Just thank your lucky stars you don't need formula that runs 380 and up for a small tin
Of course you could always buy the mainland milk it's much cheaper and comes with all the additional additives like vitamins and melamine etc
Mainland vegetables are also much cheaper than imported ones and again have a good coating of chemicals most of which would require a NOTOC if air freighted
Okay joking aside
you are right the cost of living in HK is spiraling
Electric 3500-5000 per month in summer
Car initial outlay 250,000 - 2 million
Insurance and road tax 20,000 pa and up
Parking average 25 -35 per hour
Petrol 16 L
Restaurants 2 people average 800 - 2000 and up
Cheese 45 - 68/ 100 gms
Butter 40 - 65 for 250- 500gms
Imported cauliflower small 65 - 85
Leeks per piece 22 - 38
Biscuits 25 - 60 about double UK prices
Oranges 3 for 18
Mushrooms button 3 pcs 35 - 50 dependent on size
Watsons Drinking water 80 for 18 L
Household insurance after no claims 8000pa
Magazines 65- 80
Books are expensive
Small steak 150 plus
Imported Fish is expensive you can eat the local stuff if you dare
Household cleaning products are more expensive than overseas
Dishwashing machine soap 85 for 1 kg 32 for 4kg overseas
Aircons , water heaters, fridge stove / hob
What is your usual electric bill for July Aug ? 5000 per month is not uncommon but it is if you weren't there . So did the maid help herself to the aircon etc whilst you were away ?
Do you have a fridge that runs constantly ? Do you leave the aircons on whilst away?
If you feel it's excessive ask the power corp to install a new meter for you
As for milk and nappies don't give your kids any milk they will poop less hence the requirement for fewer nappies big cost saving Just thank your lucky stars you don't need formula that runs 380 and up for a small tin
Of course you could always buy the mainland milk it's much cheaper and comes with all the additional additives like vitamins and melamine etc
Mainland vegetables are also much cheaper than imported ones and again have a good coating of chemicals most of which would require a NOTOC if air freighted
Okay joking aside
you are right the cost of living in HK is spiraling
Electric 3500-5000 per month in summer
Car initial outlay 250,000 - 2 million
Insurance and road tax 20,000 pa and up
Parking average 25 -35 per hour
Petrol 16 L
Restaurants 2 people average 800 - 2000 and up
Cheese 45 - 68/ 100 gms
Butter 40 - 65 for 250- 500gms
Imported cauliflower small 65 - 85
Leeks per piece 22 - 38
Biscuits 25 - 60 about double UK prices
Oranges 3 for 18
Mushrooms button 3 pcs 35 - 50 dependent on size
Watsons Drinking water 80 for 18 L
Household insurance after no claims 8000pa
Magazines 65- 80
Books are expensive
Small steak 150 plus
Imported Fish is expensive you can eat the local stuff if you dare
Household cleaning products are more expensive than overseas
Dishwashing machine soap 85 for 1 kg 32 for 4kg overseas
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All for the privilege of breathing crap air and being surrounded by 7 million Hong Kong Chinese who would rather you were not there.
Let's not forget schools where one basically has to bribe to get a child in. We are not talking about small amounts either. These bribes (excuse me... debentures) are similar to down payments on a home or purchasing a nice car.
Hong Kong is one of the most ridiculous places in all the world. The real estate is untouchable right now, and the ever present threat of more Mainland control casts a dark cloud over the place that makes the pollution look tame.
The third runway is a farce. It won't increase capacity much, if at all, unless the surrounding airspace gets fixed. It won't because that involves Mainland China and the military there. So that quick upgrade will not materialize. Airlines will struggle to grow and will be forced to accept middle of the night slots to add flights. That should be fun!!!
Let's not forget schools where one basically has to bribe to get a child in. We are not talking about small amounts either. These bribes (excuse me... debentures) are similar to down payments on a home or purchasing a nice car.
Hong Kong is one of the most ridiculous places in all the world. The real estate is untouchable right now, and the ever present threat of more Mainland control casts a dark cloud over the place that makes the pollution look tame.
The third runway is a farce. It won't increase capacity much, if at all, unless the surrounding airspace gets fixed. It won't because that involves Mainland China and the military there. So that quick upgrade will not materialize. Airlines will struggle to grow and will be forced to accept middle of the night slots to add flights. That should be fun!!!
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We don't care.
We have large salaries, self imposed pay raises, allowances and bonuses to cater for the cost of living. Our housing allowance is well above the pilot group and we have many add ons paid for.
Go to work, do your job you are lucky to have, read our propaganda and believe it.
We have more applicants in reserve than we ever had. We can pick and choose which candidates we wish to employ. Many new candidates are siblings of our very own Check and Training Pilots, which shows the high regard our own staff hold The CP Group. We can employ 50 new cadets a year just from siblings wishing to join The CP Group. Need I say more?
If you don't like the remuneration, then leave. There are many more to take your place. Those that will leave are very few from the surveys we have conducted in the past. The door is always open.
We will NEVER come to a negotiated settlement with the pilot group on any issue. We will always impose a settlement as a "Take it or Leave it" scenario but we will work for many months with the HKAOA just to see what to impose. It's just our nature.
We will impose a settlement at a low time of year so if the pilots “work to rule” it will not be effective. When they do, we will punish the pilots we can and that will bring the rest of the group in line.
To My Bonus.
The Management.
We have large salaries, self imposed pay raises, allowances and bonuses to cater for the cost of living. Our housing allowance is well above the pilot group and we have many add ons paid for.
Go to work, do your job you are lucky to have, read our propaganda and believe it.
We have more applicants in reserve than we ever had. We can pick and choose which candidates we wish to employ. Many new candidates are siblings of our very own Check and Training Pilots, which shows the high regard our own staff hold The CP Group. We can employ 50 new cadets a year just from siblings wishing to join The CP Group. Need I say more?
If you don't like the remuneration, then leave. There are many more to take your place. Those that will leave are very few from the surveys we have conducted in the past. The door is always open.
We will NEVER come to a negotiated settlement with the pilot group on any issue. We will always impose a settlement as a "Take it or Leave it" scenario but we will work for many months with the HKAOA just to see what to impose. It's just our nature.
We will impose a settlement at a low time of year so if the pilots “work to rule” it will not be effective. When they do, we will punish the pilots we can and that will bring the rest of the group in line.
To My Bonus.
The Management.
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Thanks for keeping it constructive gents, some good info in the responses, except for the Pratt above.
I forgot $2000 a month if you are lucky enough to park at work, with a large and increasing number of duties finishing after public transport and company buses finish, it's a case of "have to" unfortunately. Why is a 24 hour operation only serviced by transport for 16 hours a day? Make that 14 hours, ever tried to get on a bus during the lunch run? How about operating crew get priority at that time?
Medical top up insurance to get the inadequate insurance up to a level where your family is protected to the equivalent of Medicare NHS level, $40,000 and up depending on age. (PA and increasing annually). Make sure it is transferable to the country you wish to return to. Imagine trying to get health insurance at age 60 after breathing this air for 25 years, isn't going to happen, is it?
Gas is pretty cheap though!
I forgot $2000 a month if you are lucky enough to park at work, with a large and increasing number of duties finishing after public transport and company buses finish, it's a case of "have to" unfortunately. Why is a 24 hour operation only serviced by transport for 16 hours a day? Make that 14 hours, ever tried to get on a bus during the lunch run? How about operating crew get priority at that time?
Medical top up insurance to get the inadequate insurance up to a level where your family is protected to the equivalent of Medicare NHS level, $40,000 and up depending on age. (PA and increasing annually). Make sure it is transferable to the country you wish to return to. Imagine trying to get health insurance at age 60 after breathing this air for 25 years, isn't going to happen, is it?
Gas is pretty cheap though!
Last edited by Lowkoon; 24th Aug 2014 at 01:14. Reason: Spelling...
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I found that over the past two years cost of living here in HKG has sky rocketed out of control.
I also got a huge electricity bill of $10,000 We were also gone for 3 weeks.
DB ferry has gone up to $40 per trip!
School fees in DB are also almost $40,000 more than the allowance and moving apart!
Groceries have doubled over the past year!
Definitely feeling the invisible tax of inflation hurting us!
I also got a huge electricity bill of $10,000 We were also gone for 3 weeks.
DB ferry has gone up to $40 per trip!
School fees in DB are also almost $40,000 more than the allowance and moving apart!
Groceries have doubled over the past year!
Definitely feeling the invisible tax of inflation hurting us!
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True Dan, I agree that is the direction we are headed, we are a "necessary evil" and more so for CX, they can afford to hire local cadets and put them in the back seat for years, no problem. Over the road, KA needs experience, and are actively recruiting experienced guys from Europe right now. The potential new hires have a right to know what they are in for, the company certainly wont be telling them the truth. Hopefully this thread helps them make informed choices.
Frogman, you are right, groceries doubling over the last two years is my experience as well.
No one came to HK for the fresh air and wide open spaces, but we all came to get ahead, or do better than we were doing at home. There is a point where those two lines cross.
Frogman, you are right, groceries doubling over the last two years is my experience as well.
No one came to HK for the fresh air and wide open spaces, but we all came to get ahead, or do better than we were doing at home. There is a point where those two lines cross.
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I see it is indeed not cheap however as a single it is still doable. Is it possible to live there without a car?? This already saves a lot $$$$$.
But then it is still this pollution that worries me a lot. Do you people suffer from this or are you getting used to it?
But then it is still this pollution that worries me a lot. Do you people suffer from this or are you getting used to it?
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Omg, dboy. What more do you need to know? It's a bad deal all the way around. Of course, no car. You might just be dumb enough to be perfect for this job. If you're in Belgium. Stay there, fly an A320 or 737 and call it good.
If you like not flying, living in horrible pollution, being poor, cohabitating with a classmate in a shoebox, and have no desire for family ever... by all means take the job. It's perfect for you.
If you like not flying, living in horrible pollution, being poor, cohabitating with a classmate in a shoebox, and have no desire for family ever... by all means take the job. It's perfect for you.
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$11,000 in 2 months?
Dude. It's time to switch to LED to grow your hemp...
Joke aside, the inflation really is out of control here.
I like how I pay twice more for tropical fruit in Hong Kong than I do in Central London.
This place is completely out of whack.
It's owned by a handful of oligarchs who run the main consumer businesses on a gentlemen's agreement. Forget about competition and a free market, you'll pay your bread what they want you to pay for it.
Dude. It's time to switch to LED to grow your hemp...
Joke aside, the inflation really is out of control here.
I like how I pay twice more for tropical fruit in Hong Kong than I do in Central London.
This place is completely out of whack.
It's owned by a handful of oligarchs who run the main consumer businesses on a gentlemen's agreement. Forget about competition and a free market, you'll pay your bread what they want you to pay for it.
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I was on holiday in the USA. I could not believe how cheap it is over there compared to HKG.
Groceries 1/3 of the price we pay here.
Eating our 1/2 the price for double the portion of food.
Gas almost half the price
Flight of 3.5 hours for less than hkd 1000
Groceries 1/3 of the price we pay here.
Eating our 1/2 the price for double the portion of food.
Gas almost half the price
Flight of 3.5 hours for less than hkd 1000