To boat or not to boat?
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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To boat or not to boat?
Hi All,
Just after a bit of advice and opinion from those in the know. As I'm not a mainlander with 15 mill deposit to splurge on a decent sized apartment for a young family we are seriously considering the boat option. In particular DB/Gold Coast.
Have googled and googled but a lot of the info is a few years old and with the property market having completely changed during this time I would imagine the boat market has transformed also?
We've been trying to formulate our own pros and cons but are really wanting to know from those who have given it a crack.
Any info very much appreciated,
Cheers
Just after a bit of advice and opinion from those in the know. As I'm not a mainlander with 15 mill deposit to splurge on a decent sized apartment for a young family we are seriously considering the boat option. In particular DB/Gold Coast.
Have googled and googled but a lot of the info is a few years old and with the property market having completely changed during this time I would imagine the boat market has transformed also?
We've been trying to formulate our own pros and cons but are really wanting to know from those who have given it a crack.
Any info very much appreciated,
Cheers
Reconsider!
Before you buy ,what length and bear in mind you have young(?)children who need space.Slip rental goes by length so check out a few marinas first.Will you use it for offshore trips or will it be a permanent live aboard?How much for insurance ?Cost for pulling out to get anti fouling done every two years or sooner.Not trying to put you of but a lot of hidden costs to consider!
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I went through the same exercise and was given the actual monthly expenses by a current boat owner in DB marina.
Monthly expense for a 55' boat, inclusive of all the marina fees etc, (as well as your annual prepaid insurance and annual hull scrape /12) comes to about $26500.
Then you have the pending decision of the DB marina to re-evaluate the debenture cost in 2018. You will be liable for the increased debenture cost. As to date, there is no indication on how much it will rise. Care to venture a guess?
HKIRD now also prohibit any domestic helpers to live on your boat, and it's illegal to let her live elsewhere.
Monthly expense for a 55' boat, inclusive of all the marina fees etc, (as well as your annual prepaid insurance and annual hull scrape /12) comes to about $26500.
Then you have the pending decision of the DB marina to re-evaluate the debenture cost in 2018. You will be liable for the increased debenture cost. As to date, there is no indication on how much it will rise. Care to venture a guess?
HKIRD now also prohibit any domestic helpers to live on your boat, and it's illegal to let her live elsewhere.
And as the boats are largely registered as pleasure vessels, living on them full time is not technically legal either. And renting one is even dodgier. If it's rented, it's no longer a pleasure vessel - it should be a commercial vessel.
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And for all the hype of living in a boat, you should consider if you really want to live in a floating trailer park.
It may be the lesser of many evils in this polluted migrapolis, but there's something to be said for what is left of privacy.
It may be the lesser of many evils in this polluted migrapolis, but there's something to be said for what is left of privacy.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Still the best keep secret
I bought a boat 2 years ago, my second and unquestionably it's the best life style in HKG for a family. The boat is more private than an apartment, with more space, better heating and cooling and better insulation. To date no one has ever used a jack hammer on a boat or have we had screaming children or dogs running on the roof above me, as you experience with apartment living. I can play my music at a reasonable level without complaints due the great noise attenuating properties of a boat.
Yes the monthly costs are higher, 20000pm is closer to the mark however, it's a small price to pay for a superior lifestyle. 3000 sqft of luxury living for a fraction of the price of an apartment. No stamp duty! no HKMC and only 5-10 % deposit required, it's a no brainer.
Yes the monthly costs are higher, 20000pm is closer to the mark however, it's a small price to pay for a superior lifestyle. 3000 sqft of luxury living for a fraction of the price of an apartment. No stamp duty! no HKMC and only 5-10 % deposit required, it's a no brainer.
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1. Talk to the people who actually live on boats. There are many of us.
2. Yes it is expensive - but if you dont have the cash for a flat it is still much better than renting since you are using your housing to pay of an asset as opposed to your landlords mortgage...
3. It is a fantastic lifestyle. Lots of SPACE!! Quiet. Calm. No jackhammers EVER. No concrete. No elevators. Natural environment around you. Nice neighbours. Lots of kids. Its by far the best quality of life for the money. The equivalent in a landed property would cost a lot more.
Privacy is not an issue - you dont share walls with neighbours and never hear them. And if you dont want to see them you close you blinds. Bedrooms are halfway below waterline- dead quiet, and totally private and a little dark due small windows. But i find that and advantage for sleeping in the daytime.
4. Nothing is perfect - there are some issues. Firstly the supposed issue with it being a pleasure vessel and therefore you don't "legally" live on it is nonsense. The marine department has no problem with the amount of time you spend on you pleasure vessel.
Secondly the helper issue is real. If you have a helper she cannot legally stay on your boat. It is being pursued. Hopefully can be resolved.
The DB marina club debenture renewals are Dec 2018. This will cost some money. Always has. The debenture value goes up accordingly. Its still you money and you sell it on when you go. These are still some of the cheapest debentures in hong kong. Most likely it will be a non issue just like in the past.
2. Yes it is expensive - but if you dont have the cash for a flat it is still much better than renting since you are using your housing to pay of an asset as opposed to your landlords mortgage...
3. It is a fantastic lifestyle. Lots of SPACE!! Quiet. Calm. No jackhammers EVER. No concrete. No elevators. Natural environment around you. Nice neighbours. Lots of kids. Its by far the best quality of life for the money. The equivalent in a landed property would cost a lot more.
Privacy is not an issue - you dont share walls with neighbours and never hear them. And if you dont want to see them you close you blinds. Bedrooms are halfway below waterline- dead quiet, and totally private and a little dark due small windows. But i find that and advantage for sleeping in the daytime.
4. Nothing is perfect - there are some issues. Firstly the supposed issue with it being a pleasure vessel and therefore you don't "legally" live on it is nonsense. The marine department has no problem with the amount of time you spend on you pleasure vessel.
Secondly the helper issue is real. If you have a helper she cannot legally stay on your boat. It is being pursued. Hopefully can be resolved.
The DB marina club debenture renewals are Dec 2018. This will cost some money. Always has. The debenture value goes up accordingly. Its still you money and you sell it on when you go. These are still some of the cheapest debentures in hong kong. Most likely it will be a non issue just like in the past.
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Missing Blade, I am sorry but your note 4 is not correct.
Living aboard is not legal. Whilst I agree it is unlikely MARDEP will exercise the legislation I do not want my "retirement fund" subject to a calamitous fall in value should some power freak in MARDEP decide to make a name for himself.
copy of MARDEP enquiry below:
Dear Sir/Madam,
Thank you for your email.
I regret to inform you that we have no such type of "live aboard" vessel for local licensing. For the type of the vessels, please refer to the Schedule A (Class and Type of Local Vessel) of Chapter 548 D MERCHANT SHIPPING (LOCAL VESSELS) (CERTIFICATION AND LICENSING) REGULATION.
Under the Merchant Shipping (Local Vessels)(Dwelling Vessels) Regulation Cap 548A, no person shall use a vessel as a dwelling vessel in Hong Kong waters (except for a small number of dwelling vessels in Causeway Bay Typhoon Shelter which were in existence when the legislation was enacted and remain to be cleared) In short, it is not legal for a Class IV vessel to be used solely as a dwelling vessel (a place to live in). However, if one staying on board the vessel is incidental to its use as a pleasure vessel, there is no conflict with the prohibition in using a vessel solely for dwelling purposes.
Best Regards
PS CHIU
Living aboard is not legal. Whilst I agree it is unlikely MARDEP will exercise the legislation I do not want my "retirement fund" subject to a calamitous fall in value should some power freak in MARDEP decide to make a name for himself.
copy of MARDEP enquiry below:
Dear Sir/Madam,
Thank you for your email.
I regret to inform you that we have no such type of "live aboard" vessel for local licensing. For the type of the vessels, please refer to the Schedule A (Class and Type of Local Vessel) of Chapter 548 D MERCHANT SHIPPING (LOCAL VESSELS) (CERTIFICATION AND LICENSING) REGULATION.
Under the Merchant Shipping (Local Vessels)(Dwelling Vessels) Regulation Cap 548A, no person shall use a vessel as a dwelling vessel in Hong Kong waters (except for a small number of dwelling vessels in Causeway Bay Typhoon Shelter which were in existence when the legislation was enacted and remain to be cleared) In short, it is not legal for a Class IV vessel to be used solely as a dwelling vessel (a place to live in). However, if one staying on board the vessel is incidental to its use as a pleasure vessel, there is no conflict with the prohibition in using a vessel solely for dwelling purposes.
Best Regards
PS CHIU
Last edited by fire wall; 23rd Jul 2014 at 12:41.
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"However, if one staying on board the vessel is incidental to its use as a pleasure vessel, there is no conflict with the prohibition in using a vessel solely for dwelling purposes. "
I rest my case. Mardep doesnt care and is saying it right here in a roundabout way. There is no way for them to define a difference between somebody who sleeps on his boat 31 days a month ' for pleasure' and somebody who uses his boat as a dwelling. So no problem. Never has been a problem except for some busybodies who go look for issues where there are none. Typical of many Cx pilots - you know - the " every flight is a mission to the moon- lets make it as hard and complicated as possible" type....
I rest my case. Mardep doesnt care and is saying it right here in a roundabout way. There is no way for them to define a difference between somebody who sleeps on his boat 31 days a month ' for pleasure' and somebody who uses his boat as a dwelling. So no problem. Never has been a problem except for some busybodies who go look for issues where there are none. Typical of many Cx pilots - you know - the " every flight is a mission to the moon- lets make it as hard and complicated as possible" type....
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" every flight is a mission to the moon- lets make it as hard and complicated as possible"
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I live on a usable late model boat in HK. The boat is spacious and has more mod cons than an apartment. Pull out and anti-foul costs HKD 24000 per year, insurance is HKD 25000 per year. The other costs vary from marina to marina and DB debentures and live aboard fees vary as well. 15 Mill will get you a very nice 2400 square ft floating trailer in DB and leave you with a fair chunk of change, if you want a usable boat it will get you less space but a lot more boat.
PS, I use my boat on a weekly basis and in two years have not even begun to explore all the islands and beaches!!
PS, I use my boat on a weekly basis and in two years have not even begun to explore all the islands and beaches!!
short flights long nights
That about 2 million USD, must be one hell of a boat!
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I lived in the Marina until last year. It is without doubt one of the nicest 'living' experiences that I have come across in HK. For a family it proves far more satisfying than a shoebox apartment could ever provide. My boat had a huge outer deck on the top level with bbq, wet bar and enough room for 15 people to have dinner..! The master bdrm is bigger than most apartments. The only reason I sold was because I started commuting and I decided on a tiny (and I mean tiny!) place in Tung Chung. As for the financial's, when you work out the 'actual' cost, the higher monthly fees are no where near as bad as throwing away millions on stamp duty on an apartment purchase. And the boats have been steadily climbing in value every year. Until you've had a bit of experience with the living on a 'live aboard' I would suggest you don't really know what you are talking about. Some of the comments earlier in the thread are comical. Hands down the best few years i've spent living in HK.
