New SOs support
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New SOs support
New SOs joining who don't have much of an idea what's happening around them can drop me a PM. A couple of the SOs have gotten together to help out those in néed of info on almost everything that you might need to get settled as well as recreational activities like sport/diving/travel trips etc. Just to help out similarly to how other guys have helped us out before. Cheers
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Question is. Will they have any extra cash for "sport/diving/travel trips etc"?
But actually......you know that right? And, "you", know who you are.
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Local cadet S/Os have been living on this salary for years and without the "housing" allowance they now receive and that includes ones who were not living with their parents. Of course it can be done but don't expect an 'expat' lifestyle...expensive restaurants, big nights out at LKF etc..
Here's some 'support' for you fellows: by accepting these conditions you are undercutting current employees and as sure as night follows day, the pressure will be on the rest of us to be dragged to your level.
I can see it coming: 'pay to fly'. And then, even those who have accepted the current offer will start squealing. Rapacious airlines preying on an endless supply of starry-eyed dreamers.
And I can assure you, it is dreaming. The career is finished. You may wear a white shirt, but it is now a 'blue collar' job. Inadequate salaries and bonds...erm...'forgiveable loans' keeping employees like medieval serfs, who will only work harder, longer and for less as their careers 'progress'. Crappy hotels and aggressive management. And I won't get started on living in Hong Kong for an expat on an inferior package.
And when your 'loan' is paid off, you had better do well in the notorious CX checking system during your upgrade to F/O with a recognized rating, as you will be considered expendable having paid off your loan or, if you are lucky, extended or retained as a permanent S/O. You are just a seat warmer. Also, CX can always advertise for Direct Entry First Officers should the need arise. I am already hearing some interesting stories from some ultra long haul colleagues about the ability, maturity, demeanour and attitude of some of the 'iKids', and these people are not exactly endearing themselves to their seniors.
Another 'gotcha' may be double Second Officer crewing for ultra long haul. Some airlines have this already, and CX management would be salivating over the costs that could be saved. This would be seriously detrimental to already slow career progress.
From my quarter century in airlines, much of it in CX, I can assure you from past trends that continual erosion of your salary and benefits will occur, because of bonus-driven incentives for managers to cut costs, and that there will always be someone who will do your job for less.
No, there won't be any 'expat lifestyle'...while there are individuals who accept conditions like these.
I can see it coming: 'pay to fly'. And then, even those who have accepted the current offer will start squealing. Rapacious airlines preying on an endless supply of starry-eyed dreamers.
And I can assure you, it is dreaming. The career is finished. You may wear a white shirt, but it is now a 'blue collar' job. Inadequate salaries and bonds...erm...'forgiveable loans' keeping employees like medieval serfs, who will only work harder, longer and for less as their careers 'progress'. Crappy hotels and aggressive management. And I won't get started on living in Hong Kong for an expat on an inferior package.
And when your 'loan' is paid off, you had better do well in the notorious CX checking system during your upgrade to F/O with a recognized rating, as you will be considered expendable having paid off your loan or, if you are lucky, extended or retained as a permanent S/O. You are just a seat warmer. Also, CX can always advertise for Direct Entry First Officers should the need arise. I am already hearing some interesting stories from some ultra long haul colleagues about the ability, maturity, demeanour and attitude of some of the 'iKids', and these people are not exactly endearing themselves to their seniors.
Another 'gotcha' may be double Second Officer crewing for ultra long haul. Some airlines have this already, and CX management would be salivating over the costs that could be saved. This would be seriously detrimental to already slow career progress.
From my quarter century in airlines, much of it in CX, I can assure you from past trends that continual erosion of your salary and benefits will occur, because of bonus-driven incentives for managers to cut costs, and that there will always be someone who will do your job for less.
No, there won't be any 'expat lifestyle'...while there are individuals who accept conditions like these.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 16th Jan 2013 at 05:25.
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The DFO Loves You!
A little birdie told me that the DFO is on the warpath with cutting costs. All new joiners arriving from Adelaide will now only get one month paid hotel accommodation instead of the usual three months. The pressure is on boys!! Let’s see how you cope with all of your admin plus trying to sort out your accommodations all in a one-month span. WELCOME TO CX!
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Heard the same story about CX only paying for 1 month in the hotel. In the older days it used to be 6 months. So during their training when they are supposed to be heads down in the books and sims they are supposed to out looking for a flat or staying at the hotel. Now that's a stress-free environment for our new guys coming in.
Safety first!!!!
CZ
Heard the same story about CX only paying for 1 month in the hotel. In the older days it used to be 6 months. So during their training when they are supposed to be heads down in the books and sims they are supposed to out looking for a flat or staying at the hotel. Now that's a stress-free environment for our new guys coming in.
Safety first!!!!
CZ
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For the Cadet graduation CX used to fly the Parents out to the ceremony in Adeleide. They don't anymore.
That was probably originally aimed at local Hong Kong pilot graduates; CX has always tried to ingratiate itself with the local population, although it is not actually owned or controlled by a majority share of Hong Kong people.
And airlines have the odd seat that may otherwise go empty, don't you know.
And airlines have the odd seat that may otherwise go empty, don't you know.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 17th Jan 2013 at 02:25.
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As always, the thread would digress but intent is for current SOs in the company. As opposed to being constantly labelled as below par and as a compromise to standards with only having minimal hours, collective knowledge can be shared and a concerted effort can be made to continually develop professionally. There are a lot of crew out there that have been fantastic in sharing constructive criticisms as well as training notes and experience.
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I am already hearing some interesting stories from some ultra long haul colleagues about the ability, maturity, demeanour and attitude of some of the 'iKids', and these people are not exactly endearing themselves to their seniors.
Give the SOs a break lads FFS!
No, bet. Nor do I condone, or have I heard of, the behaviour you describe. But if true, at least these 'clowns' are being assholes on decent conditions of service.
I'm sure that most of the SO's who are joining on this dreadful package and undercutting your contract, with little or no practical flying experience, are very nice people, and in the fullness of time they will be ready to move into your seat and do your job for less.
And some are making a name for themselves already.
I'm sure that most of the SO's who are joining on this dreadful package and undercutting your contract, with little or no practical flying experience, are very nice people, and in the fullness of time they will be ready to move into your seat and do your job for less.
And some are making a name for themselves already.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 18th Jan 2013 at 00:33.
Yes it's true there is one fella that gives the CC a hard time. He tells them to dunk his tea bag x number of times and generally carries on like an idiot with crew meals and reducing Rec extra etc etc. he even diverted once because of it!!
FO's love flying with him.
Even the CP 777 made reference to him in a newsletter!!
Life goes on......
FO's love flying with him.
Even the CP 777 made reference to him in a newsletter!!
Life goes on......
Last edited by nitpicker330; 17th Jan 2013 at 22:58.
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Question for you Dart
rest of us to be dragged to your level
I could pick a plethora of other statements you have made, across the spectrum of trying to put people off in a pseudo-helpful way through the traditional diatribes of no money, pollution, you guys are useless yadda yadda on to stuff clearly a little intimidating for the uninitiated in PPRUNEeze; however, just one question on the above quote as a test case.
Whilst I accept the logic and probability that others joining on the reduced COS could contribute to the erosion of existing terms, will you be honest and personally accept that your motives are entirely selfish in not wanting the guys to join. Those of us with offspring in the bracket await your comments with interest.
No, I'm senior enough to quit in a few years, and I used 'us' in the general sense. Thanks for quoting and going through my previous posts.
Just trying to tell it how it is, I wish your 'offspring in the bracket' a rewarding and prosperous career. If you don't like what I'm saying, don't read it; or go to: 'User Control Panel', 'Settings and Options', 'Edit Ignore List', enter 'Captain Dart'.
'Interesting' enough for you?
Just trying to tell it how it is, I wish your 'offspring in the bracket' a rewarding and prosperous career. If you don't like what I'm saying, don't read it; or go to: 'User Control Panel', 'Settings and Options', 'Edit Ignore List', enter 'Captain Dart'.
'Interesting' enough for you?
Last edited by Captain Dart; 18th Jan 2013 at 05:24.
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Thanks; I'll pass your wishes onto my offspring (although they're in another industry), and for the record, I didn't need to 'go through ... previous posts', you stand out as ........ (Insert as appropriate, don't wanna get personal, it could all be good though).
Back to the point ,.... Question side-stepped .... but what I think you are saying is that you are senior enough not to need to be selfish on your own behalf ? So to rephrase, are you aiming to be 'selfish by proxy' on behalf of the rest of us! My point is that your, (and others), attitude to the Cadets is, in my opinion, ( Humble omitted ) Selfish. You can't disown the comments by saying "us", they're yours, and to follow up some of your remarks with, "I'm sure they're very nice people" is a bit like calling someone a Prat then saying "No offence"...(No offence)
Back to the point ,.... Question side-stepped .... but what I think you are saying is that you are senior enough not to need to be selfish on your own behalf ? So to rephrase, are you aiming to be 'selfish by proxy' on behalf of the rest of us! My point is that your, (and others), attitude to the Cadets is, in my opinion, ( Humble omitted ) Selfish. You can't disown the comments by saying "us", they're yours, and to follow up some of your remarks with, "I'm sure they're very nice people" is a bit like calling someone a Prat then saying "No offence"...(No offence)
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SO
I think what Bill is saying is this:...The new guys coming through..as much as they are pretty much groomed as minimum..like us all as we go through the various conversions..5 days for a cold 77 conversion..?? give me a break!!..is, once in and on line, try one's upmost to create the change to get back to an industry that was once proud and had respect..an inner respect. 20 years ago, or maybe a little more, pilot managers were mostly respected by the crews..now sadly, not one of us would fix bayonettes to dive over the top for a bunch of reptilian bludgers. The new generation have to recognise the trend and reverse it. Come on Bill..say your piece and let the new guys...as inevitable as they are, take the helm and fly with good sail and proper judgement!!
