Hey Dude, not sure it's doomed but if it is, so are we. What about the one employee's assistant? Does anyone know what he does or even who he is? The two of them are getting buckets full of expat package for nothing IMO.
Oh thank you AOA for: Credit free Reserve (Yeah they won't abuse that!) Pitiful credit for leave (No workstacking I'm sure) Our new Rostering Practises (who only wanted to work 700 hrs a year) All the accomplishments of DD and JF, really see the value in these guys RA65 without a 25 year housing agreement (thats not going to bite us in the future) Basings disasters Still not having the balls to say don't work on G days Better stop getting a headache over all these improvements to my contract
From what I hear the current Freighter Captains on the GC are basically only interested in their own lot. Can't see much of the outstanding issues being sorted whilst self serving GC members only work on the issues affecting them. They are trying to get the numbers up due to them lacking votes. I read their manifestos and they c,aimed they were keen to work on other issues etc, but alas if it ain't about Freighter guys coming to HKG on expat terms, they are not interested. Done my time in the GC, it ain't easy as some of you all think. DD doing best he can with the tools he has. W need strong leadership from the Prez and by all accounts we don't have it this time. GD is good man and trying but I believe he won't lead us out of the current mess we are in. Good luck though GD and to the rest of the GC, but remember who you are all representing!!
Agree. As far as I can work out FCN's relocating back to HK want expat terms AND to stay as Captains, even though there are hundreds of HK based F/O's that are senior to them. I guess the same might hold true for Freighter F/O's moving to HK. There are probably lots of S/O's senior to them. The bottom line is that if you move to HK on expat terms then you get the fleet/rank that your seniority allows. END OF STORY. I've seen this issue being discussed elsewhere & the only question I had was; "why is it being discussed?".
So: Who is going to propose a motion DIRECTING the GC in which order to handle the issues, one at a time with everyone working together until it is resolved, with a list of issues and priorities that is convenient and important to US rather than to certain individuals or to management?
As long as we keep giving into management's delay tactics and letting things slip through the cracks for years, we will continue to fail at making progress.
For example, there is no reason to wait for the "new" FTLs before negotiating RPs just because management wants to wait. Why do we just go along with management's preference to wait? This pretend "need" to wait has gone on for years and could go on for many more. Enough is enough. If one day something more restrictive comes up in the new FTLs, then fine, that will apply too. If something is less restrictive, then tough luck, the RPs apply already. More complex things can be renegotiated then, if necessary, and if we want.
The list of stalled issues is right there on the AOA home page. The utter lack of progress is absurd. Isn't it time to learn something from the FAU, to some extent, regarding public relations and moving issues right onto the CEO's desk and/or the newspapers and/or the legal system to stop management from stalling everything for years?
Does anyone think that there will suddenly be a variety of conclusive negotiations next week, month or year about SLS, housing, freighter PX, FO BPP, base closures, pay, FTA instructors, etc.?
Avoiding legal battles is not the answer: It is the only thing that moves forward outside of management's control. And when it's worth it and we're right, it usually works. Entire careers are passing us by while we "wait" for no reason. Enough is enough.
Last edited by Curtain rod; 31st Dec 2012 at 08:57.
There is so much to respond to I don't know where to start.
Fenwicksgirl... I agree that a 6-7 year seniority Freighter CN should not receive CN expat benefits in HKG but should he be forced on terms worth less than SO benefits? We all cry about seniority being the basis then why doesn't the HKAOA fight to ensure benefits are awarded in accordance with seniority? IE. he should receive the package of benefits afforded to his seniority which would be FO's benefits at 6-7 years. This would be fair to everyone to reinforce the basis of seniority and those that oppose that are still looking for retribution which will continue to hurt any seniority argument in other issues.
CX-HOR... JF hasn't been employed by the HKAOA for over 6 months now. It's entirely a DD show.
Curtain Rod... What you are suggesting is basically what's been attempted for many years. It's proven not to work but many continue to sing the same tune. Also, you make it sound like it's entirely up to the GC. Well, in one respect it is but they can't direct or control anything anymore.
I'll throw a question out here to everyone... Why is it the HKAOA can't even sit down with the Company and discuss something as simple as Freighter PXing but the Canadians were able to negotiate an entire CA (COS)? Do you think a different approach was taken or do you think they slammed the company every opportunity they got to win their contract?
Many of you have been through a messy divorce. Did you accomplish more by taking an aggressive stance in courts or do you think the individuals who practiced reason and tried to stay calm came out with more than their shirts? It's all about human nature and respecting your fellow person even if you can't stand them!
The not so fab 4 haven't learned this and I fear they won't ever learn this tact. This is why relations with the Company are bound to get much worse for the HKAOA types rather then better.
As for the Canadians, the HKAOA needs to take a page from their playbook and learn to communicate without anger, frustration or threats. They need to rebuild the trust with the company and vice versa. Only then can issues be resolved and the threats from the GMA will subside.
Then tell us what COS improvement we were about to get that they blew and prevented everyone getting?
The only reason they were able to sit down with CX is because they were using Canadian Labour Laws and the Aussies are talking because they are using Australian Labour Laws. If you can tell me what the HKAOA can use to make CX sit and discuss items I'll be really impressed.
We were promised by the CEO 18 months ago that there would be more working between the AOA and CX. Unfortunately he is not prepared to stand by his promises.
From the other thread
"Most people practice it already without shouting about it. Of those who don't, the ones that would change their practices are such a small percentage it will make sod-all difference."