Fragrant HarbourA forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.
I don't see any 'shame, shame, shame' in discussing the issue. Apart from the 'flaps' comment, which was below the belt, other people on both sides make some valid comments.
It is an undeniable fact that our environment, especially at the front end, is male dominated, and 25 years ago, females infiltrating our male bastion were rare. These days less so, and whether it's good or bad depends on the individual. As for mums with kids flying, and it's a generalization based on a small cross-section, but whether it's the maturity of having kids, or that in general they have to be just that more organized than us fathers who walk out the door and leave those problems for our wives, but I've found they are better to fly with than some of what others may term silly young girls, and for that matter some of the guys. And as for time with the kids, yes there are many days away, but that I believe is well made up by periods of time with them back at home between patterns.
Another example of how PPRuNe gets hijacked by a pack of idiots...
Yup, I'm sure that all women at home with their kids 24/7 are always fantastic mothers by default. And surely all men, when out 'hunting and gathering', have their kid's best interests at heart...
Cue male pilot with chip on his shoulder bitching about female pilots and the decline of the traditional family while getting pissed in Wan Chai...
So riddle me this Batman, why is it not OK for a man to have an opinion that women should be at home looking after the children. We live in a world where children are not being raised and nurtured correctly because women are abrograting their prime responsibility.
Last edited by owen meaney; 3rd Oct 2012 at 21:19.
I think it all depends on what set up the family has, if the father is a stay at home dad then there should be no problem but if both parents work full time jobs, say one works a 9 to 5 job and the other is a pilot, then I think it is a problem. There are too many kids being raised by helpers in Hong Kong and it doesn't help the parents as they are not as close to their children and it doesn't help the children as they don't see their parents enough. This also applies to dads, although mums do have more of a maternal instinct.
Last edited by Juliette Alpha; 4th Oct 2012 at 06:04.
Yes, Capt Undies, so many stereotypes here. A friend's partner was shocked at school when she was asked to tell her daughter's mother to come in as they had some issue to discuss. She was of course the mother but was assumed to be the helper!
can you offer any hard evidence that children (co-)raised by other family members than the mother,boarding school,helper, tutors, the family dog, are worse off than those brought up by a housewife-mum? Ever spend a thought about other influential factors, e.g. role models, stimulation, higher income equals better schools, international environment, independence, stronger bonds to friends/other family members, more challenging resulting in more resilient character, better network of influential/powerful/interesting friends etc etc etc?
No, I do not want to hear the really really gripping story of the daughter of a neighbours friend, I want to see some scientific EVIDENCE. Social study, by a neutral university/academic institution, NOT that great paper back you found online.
Spend a moment of reflection ( maybe while on a hunting break in your cave): could your one-dimensional, simplified and un-scientific way of looking at things evolve because YOU were brought up lacking any of the stimulating factors mentioned above?
This is the result of a 5 minute online search.
You probably could find material supporting your case ( albeit from far less reputable sources/publishing houses), but the VAST majority of studies does not.
PS Owen Meany, it is impossible not to note the irony of your chosen alter ego, it's creator ( which by the way you will find in the "famous boarding school alumni list" ), the bio of the novel character and the personal story of John Irving. You gotta be kidding..
You left-wing, women's lib, Obama lovers make me laugh...
Of course, the social ills of our society and the breakdown of the nuclear family has nothing to do with working parents, single parents, uninterested parents, etc. Of course, you can be a great career woman and a great mum all at the same time. Never mind the fact that you can't be in two places at once. A stand-in helper is a fine substitute for a parent. How could anyone think otherwise?
Not just mums, but dads too, are increasingly vacant from the home. Pressures from work and finances driven by gluttonous consumerism have eroded the most important facet of rearing children - TIME. Show me where you spend the majority of your time, and I'll show you what is most important in your life. It really is that simple.
None of this requires scientific research. It's called common sense.
Cxorcist, with all due respect, your reply makes no (common) sense.
A female pilot can indeed spend lots of time with her kid(s), just not in the classical way.
Another very important factor that gets overlooked is what happens if a marriage/partnership ends in a divorce ( as in 30-50 % of all marriages).
If the wife gave up her career, this will in most cases result in significant reduced living standards, and of course this WILL affect the kids,too. If the mother maintained her career this could be avoided, to the BENEFIT of the kids. Additionally two working parents are an insurance in case the husband gets unemployed or sick, another important aspect imho.
I am European, your comments on your political situation are non-sequitor to me. It is impossible for me to understand the appeal of the Tea-Party, assault rifles under the bed, fighting a monstrous state deficit with lowering taxes for the rich or Mormon multi-millionaire presidential candidates. Good luck!!
