Call me Skipper

Hey Guys and girls crossed paths the other day with a very sheepish looking DE Captain ex Oasis. Don't give em the time of day I say !, its the least we can do. These guys don't give a flying left about your position so won't get any small talk from me. Meet downstairs for a beer ?, dream on lowlife.

broadband circuit

I second that motion.

Fly747

Ex Gmo Ka Dec Lhr

Feather Boa

Wooah

What about all the "Good guys" ex KA UK that had their jobs taken when CX took us over.
Dont tar them with the same brush as the ex GMO!

Fx

BusyB

"That had their jobs taken"!!!?
I also find dec lhr difficult to believe but am happy to receive any info.

DropKnee

Do direct entry Captains have to do a PCA. If not isn't that discrimination.

4 driver

Of course no PCA for them....still an old boys club. And technically, I believe, they are hired as FO's (for one day, or less); then they get the command slot that "no one else wants".
Of course this only happens if you are in the "club"

A. Le Rhone

Whoa...don't go putting the KA guys in with the Oasis guys here.

Dragonair had it's own 747-400s but CX decided to take at least 4 of those 7 aircraft, repaint them in CX colours and force the KA Captains to have to undergo 'rapid-command' courses to once again be able to fly these very same aircraft! Nobody at KA Freight was vaguely interested in transferring to CX before this corporate decision.

Of course the reason CX took this decision with regards to Dragonair was that KA's then GMO and probably the Personnel Dept made a monumental stuff-up of the freighter (and passenger) operation by tring relentlessly to screw pilots out of their T&Cs or stonewalling much-needed improvements. The modus operandii was 'if you don't like it leave': and that's exactly what happenned! To the point where the whole KA operation was evidently becoming unviable.

So now the deposed KA GMO simply flies of home to a DEC in the UK and the rest of the KA pilots are being forced to do command courses simply to fly the very same airframes they have been poling-around for years.

As feather-Boa says, don't ever say any ex-KA Captain is taking anything from anybody at CX. This was all very unwelcome.

buggaluggs

The whole thing stinks, and makes a mockery of even having a seniority list! As always they are the first to wave it around when it suits their ends, while at the same time using back door 'work arounds' to shaft the guys waiting for upgrades!!!

" We gave them command positions none of the current crew wanted " Yeah good one, I'm going to give up my house AND take a pay cut to go into the left seat! Gee I wonder why they had empty slots!!

Myself and a lot of the other F/o's are fuming about it!! I predict they are going to have serious motivation issues with the guys from here on in!! Why bother putting any work in, when there's bound to be ANOTHER shafting waiting just around the corner!

Just makes you want to

Buggs out

Call me Skipper

Great to see some input and direction from our super cautious - gently does it Union. Gee there's not much we can do about it guys doesn't cut it. F/O's are asking themselves what has this Union done for me, there are alot of guys with the resignation letter pending. Even the girls laugh at us for our lack of b*lls when it comes to dealing with the company. In many eyes the Union has turned into a meek rubber stamp for CX, even apologizing when putting up some opposition. There better be some major changes with ST gone.

Saturn

Some time ago. We and the AOA gave up the ship long before this and now we are stuck. We and the AOA are not willing to put up a fight like the girls (and boys) of the F/A union. So we just need to shut up and take it in the tail pipe. I want to thank the AOA and particularly S.T. and J.F. for srewing us. I now know they work for the compnay and NOT the membership.

Jagman1

Only way you lot will change anything is to leave. Nobody leaves so CX just keep turning the screws. AOA? It's a non-effectual joke and due to the constant whining by the SO/FO lobby, doesn't actually represent anyone. There are 'A' scale Captains in the AOA - do they have to take a pay cut to be represented? Or a demotion? Hundreds of Direct entry Captains and extendees taking all those Commands in the fullness of time. Why? Because Cx feels like it and nobody does a thing - except moan on PPRuNe. Wow! Scary stuff!!

Feather Boa

A L R

Thanks. Exactly what I meant, but it was late and after a few beers couldn't be bothered to explain in detail!

Couldn't even spell Whoa!!!!


Fx

BusyB

Dragonair had 2 B744's, CX leased them a further 2 but they only had crews to fly 3 in all so instead of a further 2 (numbers 5 and 6) the whole arrangement was reviewed ending up as it is now.

Silberfuchs

According to Denly H there are 55 FOs who have passed their PCA and are waiting to do Freighter Command Courses.
Their courses have been delayed between 8 and 14 months so the Oasis/KA mob can quietly slip in as a matter of priority!

The AOA response has been that Command Courses are not necessarily in Seniority......only the PCA has to be in Seniority order (I think technically this is correct)

This was never a problem because Bypass Pay would protect those whose Commands were delayed.

The Company only ever promised that Rapid Command slots would be 'open' to all serving Cathay pilots.
They never promised that serving pilots would get the first courses.
The line that Oasis/KA are taking slots that serving pilots dont want is not - technically - true. We do want them! We just cant get them.....and the Company decides the priority/order and who gets them first)

The biggest crime is that Bypass Pay is not being paid to those Cat A's pilots who are having their courses delayed by the Oasis/KA mob.
This seems to be in direct conflict with our COS and the AOA has so far done nothing about it!

DH claims that Bypass Pay is not entitled because the FOs are volunteers! (which must be a brand new special rule.....because no one can find it anywhere.....either that or DH is barking mad)

My best guess is that CX is just so very short of FOs that it serves them better to upgrade new joiners (Oasis/KA) at the expense of current staff (even if that causes rumblings from the bottom).

Call me Skipper

Siberfuchs I have to disagree with you on the fact that Oasis/K.A or re-joiners (G.O. can you believe he's here again, almost beyond a joke) are blameless. It's a question of morals and those guys know very well they are shafting you and I. Keep it simple.

It's a sad day when our last vestige is PPRuNe, not the AOA, and I know I'm preaching to the converted but guys spread the word to your more relaxed collegues, don't be Mr nice guy at dispatch, let these guys know we are not fools and they are un-welcome to say the least. Who did I fly for before CX - none of your bussiness mate.

Silberfuchs

Dont get me wrong....

I think the Company should be doing the ethically and morally correct thing and prioritising upgrades to the 5 dozen serving CX pilots who have passed through all the hoops to be Cat A'd......and who want to take a Freighter/Rapid Command.

Employing new joiners into these slots is nothing but devisive (as this thread shows)
Sadly though it doesnt appear to be against our COS (albeit, I concede, there are significant grey areas)

I apologise humbly for using idealistic statements like 'eithically and morally correct'.......

Humber10

The AOA should put a vote to the membership for action and take action. This affects all, not just those awaiting command upgrades.

I'll make my thoughts known to the AOA, how many of you are willing to do the same....

I hear guys all the time, complaining on PPRuNe or at the pub, but they cant be asked to take a simple of step of letting the AOA know what they want.

Seniority list, what a joke.... I hope youre all working to rule.

Call me Skipper

Humber10 I am with you on that and I too will let the AOA know in writing (a quick 2 min yap on the phone does nothing) that I want some reaction. It's make or break time for me, this is the reason we are part of the Union, not for monthly updates on my income protection.

BusyB

Its already being looked at by the GC