Fragrant HarbourA forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.
for those of you S/Os who still dream of the 777 ...
GAME OVER!
there will be no more upgrades on the 777! All training slots will go to DEFOs. (to be precise: 4 spots left for 2008, and ZERO for 2009. the Scarebus Adventure awaits all of you this is the latest info from the one who doesn't know how ... If you don't like the sound of that pls email the AOA en masse and try to get that sorted out.
So you want people to give up bypass pay and wait 12 months for the 777. Well it's their choice, but I'd rather take an upgrade when it became available.
I'm sure the AOA is already aware, what do you think they will achieve.... If people are so unhappy about having to eat off a tray table, then they should write to the AOA....
I agree, you should be able to have some choice of fleet type, but has this ever been the case for S/O to JFO? I know there has been times when some have had a choice, but I do not think that this is the norm....
I believe that the real point being made here is that contrary to your contract DEFO's are being given priority in regards to training resources thus delaying S/O upgrades.. When you remove the B777 from the mix you effectively halve (read: lose) the JFO upgrade "opportunities". If their lips are moving...
Maybe this could be a job for.................. THE AOA!
In the meantime I would have to agree with FR:
"I can strongly recommend that you take the first available upgrade regardless of fleet!"
The majority of the JFO courses on the 777 were done in the first half of this year. The focus is now on conversions (existing based 744 and Bus pilots) for the rest of the year.
Engine Out, in your opinion how should the aoa go about stopping the employment of DEFO's ? Is the company working outside the COS ? The answer is an emphatic NO. There has always been a provision for the company to employ DEFO's. Initially it was only on the frtr , now, since COS 08 is in it is on all fleets. Fact is, prior to COS 08 they could have legally employed DEFO's on pax fleets anyway as there was no legal framework to stop them.
Cowboy One, you state "I believe that the real point being made here is that contrary to your contract DEFO's are being given priority in regards to training resources thus delaying S/O upgrades". Please state the relevant section of your COS that backs your statement. Cannot - because there is no such clause in your contract. The trng plan changes sometimes weekly to meet the commercial needs of the company.
Gentlemen, I am no company apologist but sounds like you both just want a whinge. While I agree you probably have some cause for frustration it does help your arguement (and the general perception that we are not a bunch of knee jerking semi organised swill) if you know what the F you are talking about.
Now if you want to talk about bypass pay for officers whose commands have been delayed due Oasis tidal wave then you might get somewhere. At least you would have some legal arguement to put forward.
Last edited by fire wall : 28th July 2008 at 15:05.
With regards to the DEFO/SO upgrade debacle, the only CONTRACTUAL problem is the companies interpretation on the "suitability" of SO's for upgrade and therefore bypass pay eligibility. There are now somewhere around 80 bypass pay triggers, ie extended captains and pax DEFO's but CX only assess the top 50 SO's or so. There are now approximately 30 guys that are not being paid because the company will only assess the top 50.
THIS IS HORSE FECES and is probably the most legitimate fight the AOA has to try and win at the moment,
Well its even worse, from what I can tell, it's only the top 45 have had their review..... Aparently there is a sufficient pool of suitable S/Os, so therefore a longer wait to be assessed, unfortunately they continue to hire DEFO when they have suitable S/Os to assess and upgrade....
From what I can see from the AOAs latest survey, if they are considering giving up bypass for F/Os awaiting command, for age 65, I dont think that S/O bypass is high on the priority list.....
When I was an S/O we joined CX on the S/O seniority list, and did not join the Command Seniority list until we made F/O. Quite a few DEFO's joined CX after I did, but are 200 places higher on the seniority list today. All of us in CX today took the deal we got, and must live with it.
Ask anyone who wore one bar (or one and a half!) in the 1990's about their seniority and be prepared for a tale of woe. Everyone gets "shafted" at least once in their CX career, its just a question of how badly.
CX can recruit DEFO's under our CoS, and if they pitch the terms and conditions low enough nobody but those new joiners will be interested in those Freighter Command slots, etc.
If MAX is off to V, best of luck mate! Your going to loveeeeeeeeeeeeeee it there, a very professional outfit that will run like a well oiled machine. Enjoy the pineapple
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