Fragrant HarbourA forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.
HKA is owes 10's of millions of dollars, hasn't ever been profitable, just deeper in debt, the government has restricted the "growth" if we can call it that, and the flagship route has been cancelled. Additionally, Aircraft are not being cleaned, a move to outer bays has been initiated to attempt to save money, and flights within Asia are routinely cancelled at the last minute.
A picture of a healthy airline it is not. Hanian may or may not decide to keep pouring cash into HKA. Neither myself or anyone else knows that (including you).
But if I had to pay for a flight, why would I risk paying HKA? Who knows when the plug will get pulled. ALGOL didn't even hear about the LGW till 4 days after word spread to others in HK.
HKA is not going to tell staff or consumers till its too late to save themselves.
HKA is owes 10's of millions of dollars, hasn't ever been profitable, just deeper in debt,...
To who? HAECO?
So you say. That is a matter of dispute I believe.
And which airline ever made a profit in the first two and a half years of operations? Only 1 that I can think of. A mould breaker in the business, I'm sure you'd agree, and know to whom I refer.
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...the government has restricted the "growth" if we can call it that,...
I'd call 0 widebodies to 20 units in 30 months spectacular growth! What would you call it?
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....and the flagship route has been cancelled.
Back to the knitting then.
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Additionally, Aircraft are not being cleaned, a move to outer bays has been initiated to attempt to save money, and flights within Asia are routinely cancelled at the last minute.
Hurricanes, ATC delays, HKIA protectionism, and state dictated anti-business practices. Its a wonder anything ever gets off the ground in HKG except the Cartel airlines as far as I can see. This BS would be ILLEGAL in a liberalised Western country.
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A picture of a healthy airline it is not. Hanian may or may not decide to keep pouring cash into HKA. Neither myself or anyone else knows that (including you).
Its a picture of a company that is expanding rapidly, and in which the staff and management are struggling manfully to keep pace. Why not ask - who dictates that pace? Focus your criticism there if you will.
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But if I had to pay for a flight, why would I risk paying HKA? Who knows when the plug will get pulled. ALGOL didn't even hear about the LGW till 4 days after word spread to others in HK.
Mate, I saw the same thing happen with a certain small LoCo carrier in Europe. Its now one of the top three airlines in Europe. The politicians got off its back and broke a Cartel, just like the one in HKG. The rest is history. You should keep praying the same doesn't happen here, or you might not like the consequences for your own (Government protected) job.
And which airline ever made a profit in the first two and a half years of operations? Only 1 that I can think of. A mould breaker in the business, I'm sure you'd agree, and know to whom I refer.
How does this aply to HKA it allready exists 7 yrs from when it started as CR Airways.. If you mean widebody just maybe I could agree with you..But otherwise it is a complete BS remark
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Its a picture of a company that is expanding rapidly, and in which the staff and management are struggling manfully to keep pace. Why not ask - who dictates that pace? Focus your criticism there if you will.
Once again have to disagree with you. Just look at Air Asia they are growing for more quicker than HKA...Not sure how to bring it to you but they have been operating with 4/5? acft for years so counting the extra A330's it is not expanding that fast as management wants you to think
Other than that best of luck coming weeks..I have to agree starting to look less than good for HKA unfortunately..
Westjet, for one. But I'm sure you're referring to that failure of humanity called RyanAir in Europe that I wouldn't be caught flying on as a passenger let alone as crew.
HKA has been around a long time.. I worked there 7 years ago, and it was CR Air long before that.. Its only success has ever been surpassing its previous failures and debt.
The amount owed to Haeco isn't in dispute. It wasn't paid.
Spectacular growth? I was there from 0 B737 to 11 I believe before the Singaswine f*cked it all up.. Its easy to build a fleet with no need for profit and unlimited funds to procure aircraft isn't it.
As for the rest.. back to the knitting indeed. If you can't recognize the light at the end of the tunnel is a opposite bound train, you deserve to get hit.
How does this aply to HKA it allready exists 7 yrs from when it started as CR Airways.. If you mean widebody just maybe I could agree with you..But otherwise it is a complete BS remark
Nope. The connection to your HKA is in name only. HKA was a completely different animal back then, managed by different people, under different ownership, under-resourced, and going nowhere. Comparing HKA post 2009 to that HKA is comparing chalk and cheese. Its blindingly obvious there was a massive sea change 3 years ago.
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Once again have to disagree with you. Just look at Air Asia they are growing for more quicker than HKA...Not sure how to bring it to you but they have been operating with 4/5? acft for years so counting the extra A330's it is not expanding that fast as management wants you to think
Did you misstype? Did you mean '45' aircraft? Is that all? After 11 years? What do you think is the difference between HKA's [re]launch and AA's? Let me tell you what I know about Air Asia. That airline was (reputedly - if you believe Tony) set up on a shoestring budget, and the business plan written on the back of a hotel bar bill. But it was given nearly carte-blanche from day 1 thanks to the political pull of some of its backers (look up AK for starters) who made sure it got all the breaks it needed, contrary to the interests of the incumbent National Carrier (which it is slowly killing). Just goes to show how a liberal aviation market can encourage growth and innovation, while protectionism and Cartels strangle the rest at birth. Air Asia has been around for 11 years. HKA only woke up 30 months ago. Have some patience!
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Westjet, for one.
Well it wasn't the one I was thinking of, and I rather doubt your assertion (gimme a link). I did however note (on Wikipedia) that Westjet was grounded in its first year of operation by Transport Canada. It went on to be the second largest carrier in Canada. Nice metaphor there, ta.
Nah, I was referring to SouthWest Airlines! But although I've heard that story oft repeated (profitable from launch) it turns out (again according to Wiki) that not only did SW not make a profit for years - but it too was baulked for those early years by a pair of legacy carriers who didn't like the upstart and tried to strangle it. SW is now the most reliably profitable airline in the US, and the legacy carriers who tried to do it in are gone, or merged. Seems to be a trend here....
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But I'm sure you're referring to that failure of humanity called RyanAir in Europe that I wouldn't be caught flying on as a passenger let alone as crew.
Hehe....I wouldn't even mention its name. But you did. Like it or not - its yet another upstart that ate the world.
...this is definitely getting to be more than just a trend now....
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HKA has been around a long time.. I worked there 7 years ago, and it was CR Air long before that.. Its only success has ever been surpassing its previous failures and debt.
A, a disgruntled ex-employee. Relax - just kiddin'
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The amount owed to Haeco isn't in dispute. It wasn't paid.
It certainly IS in dispute. Unless you work for HAECO now....
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Spectacular growth? I was there from 0 B737 to 11 I believe before the Singaswine f*cked it all up.. Its easy to build a fleet with no need for profit and unlimited funds to procure aircraft isn't it.
Did they have the same backers in 2005?
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As for the rest.. back to the knitting indeed. If you can't recognize the light at the end of the tunnel is a opposite bound train, you deserve to get hit.
I'm an avid reader of Ernie Gann. One of my favourite quotes; "Älways keep an out in your back pocket."
Very good. But its been in existence for 68 quarters. The point was about the history of profitability in 2.5 year old airline projects (first 10 quarters).
Well with your point of view that changing management will change the airline than I would say CX/KA would be an 12 month airline as well since they had a change of topmanagement last year..
Problem with HKA is basically they replace the top management everytime but somehow these people are less then competent since they keep failing...This has nothing to do with the people on the workfloor since you have cabin crew cleaning toilets etc etc it seems to me the staff is giving their full 120%
I would be really interesting what actions of management would make you say they now have an idea of what they are/should be doing..To me as a complete outsider it looks like they are running around like a chicken without a head...(or a snake,kangaroo or whichever animal you want to put instead of a chicken)
Well with your point of view that changing management will change the airline than I would say CX/KA would be an 12 month airline as well since they had a change of topmanagement last year..
On 27 June 2006, Hainan Airlines purchased a 45 percent holdings of the airline .....CR Airways Limited officially changed its name to Hong Kong Airlines.....The airline made the biggest aircraft order in its young history on 21 June 2007, by ordering 51 narrow- and wide-body aircraft from European plane maker, Airbus, at an estimated value of US$5.6 billion. The airline's IATA code was changed from N8 to HX on 27 May 2007.
That's where I think the 'sea-change' happened. Nothing to do with Middle Management, 5.6Bn USD is a LOT of money, in anyones language. NASA just put a lander on Mars for half that.
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Problem with HKA is basically they replace the top management everytime but somehow these people are less then competent since they keep failing...This has nothing to do with the people on the workfloor since you have cabin crew cleaning toilets etc etc it seems to me the staff is giving their full 120%
The frontline people always save managements ass. Its universal.
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I would be really interesting what actions of management would make you say they now have an idea of what they are/should be doing..To me as a complete outsider it looks like they are running around like a chicken without a head...(or a snake,kangaroo or whichever animal you want to put instead of a chicken)
The jury is still out. All I will say is I've worked in companies where Management were interminably at war with their pilots, and this is definitely not the case at HKA.
Who cares.. guys and girls there all got 330 ratings and fat pay checks...if the place is in trouble theyre all in high demand with other 330 carriers...great stepping stone and the more highly qualified bods will be sucked up elsewhere with shiny new 330 time.Wish I'd got in but was too late.
Losers there if the doom and gloom is true are the FOs, skippers must be rubbing hands with glee at the numerous jobs out there.
Been in the region for a long time, seems to be a control measure by CAD...thats all.they will still expand.
CALGARY, ALBERTA--WestJet Airlines today announced its financial results for the year ended December 31, 1999, featuring a 143% increase in net earnings, to $15.8 million in 1999 from $6.5 million in 1998. Earnings per share (fully diluted) also more than doubled from 28 cents in 1998 to 58 cents in 1999. As of December 31, 1999, the company had 27,303,999 shares outstanding with total long-term debt of $29.3 million, shareholders' equity of $94.5 million and $50.7 million in cash on hand.
Total revenues increased by more than 62% from $125.4 million in 1998 to $203.6 million in 1999. Yield, measured by revenue per revenue passenger mile, increased 15% from 19.6 cents in 1998 to 22.5 cents in 1999. Higher jet fuel prices and the introduction of the second phase of Nav Canada charges in 1999, contributed to an increase in expenses of 54.1% over 1998 to $173.1 million. Excluding the impact of the Nav Canada charges and the employee profit share, which grew from $1.7 million to $6.6 million, unit costs increased only 3% from 11.7 cents per available seat mile in 1998 to 12.1 cents in 1999. Earnings from operations increased by 132% to $30.5 million in 1999 compared with $13.1 million in the previous year.
HKCAD freezes Hong Kong Airlines' fleet expansion plans
The latest from Air Transport World yesterday:
"The Hong Kong Civil Aviation Dept. (CAD) has frozen the fleet expansion plans for Hainan Airlines subsidiary Hong Kong Airlines (HX) due to safety concerns.
According to CAD, the Hong Kong-based carrier would have to meet all safety requirements for operating a larger fleet as well as stricter conditions to HX’s air operator’s certificate (AOC) limiting the types of aircraft the carrier can fly.
This means HX cannot add any aircraft without prior approval from CAD.
“With a very rapid expansion of aircraft fleet in recent years, CAD considers that it is time for HX to catch up with its current fleet size by consolidating their existing operations,” CAD said.
HX operates a fleet of 21 aircraft, comprising seven Airbus A330-200s, one A320, three A330-200 freighters, eight Boeing 737-800s and two 737-300Fs.
The carrier said it has no plans to cancel any aircraft orders but instead would phase out its older aircraft.
HX in 2010 finalized an order for 25 Airbus aircraft, comprising 15 A350-900 and 10 A330-200s. The 15 -900s are scheduled to be delivered in 2018; the 10 -200s are expected to begin delivery this year (ATW Daily News, Oct. 14, 2010).
HX also placed a $3.8 billion order for 10 A380s, which are scheduled for delivery from 2015 (ATW Daily News, Jan. 10). However, the A380 order is in jeopardy as the Chinese government protests the European Union Emissions Trading Scheme tax (ATW Daily News, March 9)."
For once it seems HKG CAD is doing its job.If we all operate like they do over the border and around some parts the rest of Asia there is no point being here.
"FOR Hong Kong Airlines, August has turned out to be the cruellest month. Hong Kong's Civil Aviation Department has told the airline that it is not allowed to expand its 21-strong fleet until it has met relevant safety requirements. And more recently the carrier announced that its business-class-only service between London Gatwick and Hong Kong is to close in September, just six months after launch...."
A1015/12 NOTAMN Q) VHHK/QMRXX/IV/NBO/AE/000/999/2010N11430E268 A) VHHH B) 1208170356 C) 1208170600 EST E) RWY 07R SINGLE RUNWAY OPERATION DUE DISABLED ACFT ON RWY 07L. TRAFFIC TO EXPECT SIGNIFICANT DELAY.
