Fragrant HarbourA forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.
But unless the case is settled out of Court, or held In Camera, at least we should hear opposing arguments and can decide for ourselves - no matter what the Court rules.
Actually only the 3 Mxx franchise holders are allowed to operate pushback tugs on HKIA.So HKA cannot operate its new tug unless it gains a franchise as a MRO and I do not think the other franchise holders will agree to that,Perhaps HKA should have asked the question first.............HKIA is a franchise operated airport.Airlines can handle themselves as per ICAO agreements but any service such as pushback/towing/toilet/water servicing/specialised equipment can only come from the 3 franchisees(Haeco/Casl/Papas).So while HKA can do its own check in/flight handling/maintenance it must use one of the franchised companies for the other services.Welcome to Hkg/Hkia a open and competative city..........NOT.
Heh - Cathay no longer has a shareholding in HAECO, CASL is BA/CI/UA, and PAPAS is SQ/CA. So oddly enough, far from CX having it all sewn up, they don't have a stake in any of the providers.
There may well be a case for another franchise to be awarded, but it doesn't say much about competence of HKA management that the franchise/ license requirements at HKIA appears to have come as a surprise to them
I have always said that the management at HKA were a bunch of incompetant fools. This is just another f-up in a long line a f-ups. Things like always seem to take them by "surprise", see what you get when you put a bunch of laundry managers in charge of an airline.
My suggestion is that they hand the whole show over to the super superior managment at HKE, things like this will never happen if I was in charge. Oh and I will do it cheaper than the last guy just so that I get the job. Trust me, the whole of HKE pilot body is behind me 100%, just dont ask them.
The BIG PICTURE.............. I Have It, They Don't.
XOP's............ The Only Way To Operate...........
I haven't checked in for a while, and when I do, I see this thread is still the top of the Fragrant Harbour Forum!
I must admit, I thought that Hainan would ave cashed their chips in on this one a long time ago! Best of luck to those whoa re currently trying to make a living in HKA.
This company has me stumped , what is Hainan`s strategy they could pull the plug in a heart beat ( the chinese would do that ) or leave it status quo just plodding along, surely they can`t be making money in this economic climate CAN THEY whatever it is they can`t be giving the people working there too much confidence. The " piss up in the brewery " comes to mind when you read that management don`t know the basics of a franchise operated airport, but i think Algol best sums up the fiasco at HKIA with HKA, its definitely more complicated than what it seems, like an iceberge most of it is not visible, likewise i wish all of the people that make a living at HKA all the best and long may that continue
Actually only the 3 Mxx franchise holders are allowed to operate pushback tugs on HKIA.So HKA cannot operate its new tug unless it gains a franchise as a MRO and I do not think the other franchise holders will agree to that,
A closed shop? A three-way Monopoly? Un - fkn - believable. I wonder how that arose? Was it mere stupidity from the outset....or something -er- more lucrative?
Quote:
Perhaps HKA should have asked the question first............
Yes, indeed. But maybe they did, and naiively thought it would be 'alright on the night' with HAECO? Not enough reason to worry about or hold up building an airline? I wonder what Jetstar will do about this?
Quote:
HKIA is a franchise operated airport.Airlines can handle themselves as per ICAO agreements but any service such as pushback/towing/toilet/water servicing/specialised equipment can only come from the 3 franchisees(Haeco/Casl/Papas).
Its truly outrageous when you think about it. Third World BS.
Quote:
So while HKA can do its own check in/flight handling/maintenance it must use one of the franchised companies for the other services.Welcome to Hkg/Hkia a open and competative city..........NOT.
You said it right.
Quote:
Heh - Cathay no longer has a shareholding in HAECO, CASL is BA/CI/UA, and PAPAS is SQ/CA. So oddly enough, far from CX having it all sewn up, they don't have a stake in any of the providers.
Look at HAECO's own website. It calls itself a 'Swire Group Company' right there. Cathay is a Swire Company too - no? You don't see any relationship? No parrallels of interest?
Skytrax is a scam. Its not real, but made up awards from company sponsorship. Like IATA.. or ICAO. Both only are there to effect change for the business. Not provide safety or oversight.
Internal. Heard this today from a friend @ HKA aswell. I'm sure it will be released shortly.
Still no confirmation here, official or unofficial. And I've asked around.
Quote:
Also if you go to their website and try to book you'll see all future flights are "sold out"
Yep, checked that, and its correct. Don't know what that means yet - could simply be a rejigging of the schedule. 7 days a week was crazy from the start. As was LGW IMHO. Could be a schedule reduction, and/or a new destination, both of which would be welcome.
Regarding the fleet freeze - total units planned by end of 2012 was 23. That includes phasing out of 3 737-800's. So if 20 is correct it's not such a massive hit after all. Could be accounted for by delay to the remaining A320 deliveries. Three A330-300's are still due before hitting 20 units.
So what about the recruitment drive? Has that all gone sour now as well? Obviously all those who joined recently will be worried about what aeroplanes they will fly if they have been delayed by the CAD....
Regarding the fleet freeze - total units planned by end of 2012 was 23. That includes phasing out of 3 737-800's. So if 20 is correct it's not such a massive hit after all. Could be accounted for by delay to the remaining A320 deliveries.
I got the impression that it wasn't fleet numbers, but the list of exact registrations listed in the AOC are the only aircraft allowed and that phasing out certain aircraft would not mean the addition of newer ones would be allowed. New aircraft still requires training new crews. The CAD want everything stopped so there is time for the airline and standards to catch up. Allowing a certain number of aircraft when 'older' planes are about to be swapped out for A320s goes against the intent of the CAD's order.
Still no official announcement, but the media are reporting the LGW service is withdrawn, and I've heard unofficial reports the three HCCs are being sent to Hainan.
Quote:
I got the impression that it wasn't fleet numbers, but the list of exact registrations listed in the AOC are the only aircraft allowed and that phasing out certain aircraft would not mean the addition of newer ones would be allowed. New aircraft still requires training new crews.
That makes no sense to me. If the 3 A330 HCCs are going, and 3 more A330-300's are coming (delivery already scheduled) are you saying the CAD would block the same type? Well, it's HKG, and anything crazy can happen.
If 20 units is the agreed number, there will be additional aircraft required to reach that number, especially if the HCCs go.
The LGW service was a daily heavy crew op (two crews), so do the math. 4X 7 = 28 pilots, plus reserves/rest coverage, probably at least 36 guys. If the fleet number hits 20 they may keep their jobs, though on other type.
If not, there may be redundancies. Or transfers to other airlines in the group. Anyone in the holding pool should start reviewing their situation I guess.
On the whole this is a sad outcome, not only for HKA, but for the whole industry. The LoCo model is driving this industry down to the lowest common denominator. We need to see a working alternative model. I just wish somebody would do it right and give it a chance to work. I thought Eos in the US was a great effort - but the GFC and $140 oil killed that off too.
, what is Hainan`s strategy they could pull the plug in a heart beat ( the chinese would do that ) or leave it status quo just plodding along, surely they can`t be making money in this economic climate CAN THEY 
whatever it is they can`t be giving the people working there too much confidence.
