philhurd

As a complete novice I have spent time searching for the info I need but I guess that ,just like anything else, you need to know where to look. Can anyone give me a realistic idea of how much I would need to spend to be able to fly helis as a profession? And if antone can help explain the numerous abreviations then I could at least communicate in the same language.

helicopter-redeye

Call it £70,000 plus opportunity cost of lost income (if applicable)

That's to get to the entry gate.

TheFlyingSquirrel

forget it - go fly a tin tube and get treated like a human - wading in **** and grease with the chance of the donkey dying and the machine sending you perilously to the ground, every five minutes - don't waste your time and money !

( how did I rate on the ' scaremonger scale ' lads? )

Oogle

Lots and lots of threads previously about this subject. The answer comes in two parts:

1. How much to get your licence; and

2. How long before I can get a job

The answer to the first would come from any of the local flying schools. The second answer depends on how much time (and therefore ££££££) you can put into finding a job. Not very easy but it is achieveable.

The £70,000 mentioned before is probably not far off the mark if you add up all the costs.

You have been brave to throw the question out to the forum and you will get some scaremongers here and there but stick at it - you will succeed.

But FlyingSquirrel is right - if you want the bucks, go for the airlines (but nowhere near as exciting)

Quick Release

Phil.

I got my cpl-h in OZ and got a job straight away with the company i flew with, a few guys of hand that were there same time also got the same and within 2 years one of them is now working for Bristows as a Co-pilot, the others i lost track of, i would call that professional employment and it only cost him AUS35G , home studied ATPL and IREX.
Some will post they have spent a fortune, but thats because they are trying to buy thier way into the industry, but it doesnt have to be like that always.
Thats not a punt at those people who do, like alot of people who post, beware the companies that tell you get this and get that OH! and we can help you with that just leave us your credit card!. spend a fortune and still no job.
I feel for the UK guys spending all that dosh that could be doubled if taken else where ie: OZ or US, i saw lots of UK guys go to OZ for a CPL then even do the JAR additional hours also in oz and went back to UK, some stay in OZ and get basic tourist jobs with basic salary but heaps of hours in both piston and turbine, not a bad start.

Just another view from one who spent very little did some home work and made a few friends and went a long way
PM me if you like,tell me about your self. maybe i can help.

Whirlybird

Ah, yes, the abbreviations...I remember that problem.

PPL(H) - helicopter private pilot's licence. You can fly, take passengers, but not be paid.
CPL(H) - helicopter commercial pilot's licence. You can legally be paid to fly. But no-one will give you a job unless you know the right people.
FI - Flight instructor. You first get an FI(R). That means it's restricted, ie you can only instruct under supervision. Getting rid of the restriction is hard, so there are loads of FI(R)s looking for work.
ATPL(H) - Helicopter air transport pilot's licence. Not sure how you get this; it used to be when you'd flown loads of hours, but that may have changed. You really, really don't need to worry about it now.
Ab initio - lit "from the start" if I remember my Latin correctly. Used by flying schools to mean they'll take someone who doesn't know one end of a helicopter from another, and teach them from there right up to getting...whatever.

Basically, to stand any chance of a job, you need a PPL(H) - around 50-70 flying hours; a CPL(H) - lots of exams and a 30 hour flying course; and an FI(R) rating - total of 250 flying hours altogether, plus a 30 hour flying course. Multiply all that by £250/hour (less when flying solo), add in a couple of thousand for exams, medicals, and ground school (written work) and you won't be too far off the figure needed to have any chance of getting a job. Subtract a bit if you're willing to work out the rigmarole of being VAT registered (you can claim it back in some circumstances), if you can go abroad to hour build (do lots of flying to get those magic hours), or you want to pay for some flying in advance and get a reduction (risky; flying schools go to the wall with monotonous regularity).

Right, now we're speaking the same language...what else do you want to know?

nimbostratus

Airline Transport Pilot Licence (Helicopters)

This is the licence towards which all pilots should aspire.
The requirements are as follows:

To be aged at least 21 years;
Pass the fourteen ATPL(H) theoretical knowledge examinations;
Have completed at least 1000hrs of flight time to include:
350hrs multi-pilot operations, 250hrs pilot-in-command (PIC), 200hrs cross-country flight time, 70hrs instrument time, and 100 hours night flight as PIC.

The only realistic route to this is to obtain your CPL(H) and then apply for a job on the North Sea. Don't worry about finding work, there's plenty of it about.

Camp Freddie

I have said it before, but I will say it again


CPL(H) only £40k approx high risk, no chance of employent
CPL(H) + FI rating £60k approx, low risk much better chance of employment but rewards can be low until you become high time
CPL(H) + IR £70k high risk, potentially high returns is you get to the north sea, jobs scarce at present

thats it really

regards

CF

notnoz

Phil,

At those prices you'd be better off going to Oz and getting a licence there. Half the price, better job prospects and you could drop all that saved cash on the aussies to win the ashes and be laughing all the way into the hover!!!!

thecontroller

training is often cheaper in countries other than the uk, but beware.... without a work visa, a low-time pilot will probably struggle to find work.

The Ferret

Phil

You can set yourself up for alot cheaper in the USA - and there are Visas schemes that will allow you to get your qualifications and then work to achieve a respectable number of hours. Check out Helicopter Adventures Inc in Florida.

TheGimp

It is cheaper getting your licence abroad but the problems come when:

1. You pass your CPL, but because your hours are so low no-one can employ you as they can't get you insured.

2. It's much easier for companies to employ a resident of the country rather than go through a load of hassle to employ johnny-foreigner.

3. You find out you can't stay in the country and end up having to come back to the UK where the CAA tell you that your licence isn't worth a damn and if you want to fly over here you'll have to do all the ground school & exams again!

Not that I'm bitter

Bertie Thruster

Phil, are you still young enough for the military option?

notnoz

You might want to check the status of the J1 visa before you go down the US road. l believe things are in the process of changing with regards to working on a J1 after you have finished your training. Chances of a 'green card' are nil unless you turn up on a rubber tube and claim refugee status. Then there is always the lottery!!!!!

jemax

Hi all,

I put a post up on Saturday, thanking a number of people for getting me from 0 hours to CPL in just under 12 months, a few people have PM'd me to ask more details costs, advice etc.

I thought it might be helpful if I put up an e-mail I sent out in reply to relay my experience of getting through the last 12 months.

I hope it helps, some of it overlaps with stuff in FAQ's, but hey, something in there might help.

Good Luck, see below, oh and thanks for the congrats to those who sent them through

Adam



Firstly Class 1 medical, before you spend a penny, without this you are going
nowhere, bout £500.

Not sure of your financial position, I was reasonably comfortable, but had the fixed outgoings which go with a well paid job, I budgeted very carefully, went to see an excellent accountant. Don't kid yourself on the budget, there will always be things you don't factor, add at least 10%. Also factor in any loss of income, I stopped working entirely on 31st July 2004 so I could devote 100% of my time to it. Accountant got me Vat registered and sorted out National Insurance that type of thing.

Back of a fag packet
PPL £14k, less vat if you get registered, includes a bit for the 7 exams and test itself, I did it in 46.2 hours including the test and 6 weeks, don't believe this stuff about 60 hours to get through, it's not necessary if you are doing it intensively. If you do a couple of hours a month then yes it's likely to be 60+ hours. My instructor was £215 per hour plus vat.

I contacted Bristol Ground School the same day I passed, but in fact you could start earlier you just have to demonstrate you have completed the exams before doing the CPL Skills test. Their distance learning course is excellent, I didn’t go for a classroom course as the pace is too slow,
I did the lot start to finish in 6 half months, but I worked hard, could have easily taken a month or even two off that if I had really worked, but couldn’t have done as much hour building. I did 9-5 every weekday. £1900 for this plus 4 weeks accommodation at £30 per night in Cheddar,
13 exams total, I got through them all first time, none of it is rocket science, but there is a lot, USE THE ONLINE QUESTION BANK before hand, I had three weeks solid on this alone for the first lot of exams.

CAA exam fees about £60 each, 13 exams. Plus a few days accommodation at exam centres and food say £500.

Hour building at the same time, I flew all through the winter and so was happy to fly less than sunny condition, but watch for deteriorating weather and always have options, wind is a big issue at low hours, well all hours for that matter, have landed in a field rather than press on a couple of times, never even think of going anywhere near IMC. I hooked up with a more experienced mate who was also hourbuilding about 50 hours ahead and we could split workload, especially useful when in sh*te weather. Difficult balance here, but you do need to push yourself a bit, otherwise you will shy away from anything but benign conditions, but do be exceptionally careful and take advice from more experienced pilots.
Going to states is a waste of time, by the time you have factored in VAT rebate it's not cheaper and people will look on you better if all your flying is in the theatre you operate in. Unless you want a holiday or to work out there.

Hourbuilding Use this time wisely, visit lots of flightschools in the heli, go abroad a couple of times, I flew to the Pyrenees and took some mountain flying instruction, get comfortable with helilanes, get to know as many people as possible. So from PPL pass you need to get to 155 hours to start course, so for me an additional 110 hours at £150 plus vat self fly rate. Quite a lot of hotels and stuff to factor in in the hourbuilding say £3k on top. And have a purpose for every single flight, if it is to meet someone, find out
they are there and fly in, do not waste this time.

Commercial course 30 hours at £215 plus vat again, relatively straightforward and really improves your flying, also you need to factor in an additional five hours night flying, which cost me in total £1800 inc vat. Look at document 3H on the CAA website for a description of what's in the test, put it in the search and it'll come up. Exam fee is £600, plus about 2 hours heli hire.

So I reckon about £50k plus loss of income, the ground school is not too difficult if you are motivated. YOU WILL NOT GET A JOB AT 200 HOURS CPL, best bet is get to 250 and do instructors rating, I gather the course is challenging and another 30 hours plus exam fee and there do seem to be people looking for instructors if you have the right attitude.

Get a very experienced instructor you get on well with and who has guaranteed access to aircraft, this can be difficult if they don't have their own Heli, mine did, actually he had access to two on his own, watch this as I have spoken to people who have
had numerous lessons cancelled because aircraft have gone out on charter at short notice. Pay nothing up front, or just a bit, I would lodge a couple of grand, use it up, sometimes in a couple of days then he would ask for some more, sometimes I owed him a little sometimes he owed me, but never let the balance
get too high either way.

Oh and I also did a 44 conversion which was excellent as I have managed to get about 15 well cost shared hours from that as noone will pay to go up in a 22 on their own, but 3 mates together at £100 each for an hour is affordable and fun for them.

So now I am an unemployed heli pilot, I have a few really good irons in the fire, but we'll see, great year, oh and I have started a gardening business in the last 3 months which is doing quite nicely and allows me to be flexible.

When you look at your finances cut out all unnecessary expenditure, I even canned the SKY Sports subscription.

First flight was a year ago yesterday, I had never flown anything before and no aviation background at all, but am very motivated.

This is a bit rambling, happy to help, com back to me with any clarification.

My views entirely, and treat the damn things with a huge amount of respect,they'll have you in two seconds flat, I used to race in the British Superbikes and nothing was ever as scary as one or two moments I have had in a R22, read Fatal traps for helicopter pilots and scare yourself by reading lots of AAIB accident reports, if you still want to do it JUST GO FOR IT!

Adam

Gerhardt

An EXCELLENT post! I'm into my 8th hour in adding a helo rating to my ppl so this is fun for me to read.

1. You said there are a few job prospects for a 250 hr CPL. What types of jobs?

2. Did you find the CPL much tougher than the PPL?

3. May I ask how old you are?

4. What are your intermediate and long-term career goals?

5. Your next step to achieve those goals?

jemax

Thanks

In my opinion there seem to be a few people in the UK looking for instructors at the moment, if you have a good attitude, so once you have an instructors rating there is a small possibility of employment, terms will not be great though.

CPL in itself is not that much tougher than PPL, standards are higher, but you are flying better by that stage, I found the pre prep on the ground more challenging that the test itself, look at the 3H document

Im 37, Aries, good sense of humour

Career goals ultimately want to end up working overseas, but that is some time away, want to get into the North Sea, had a trip up there recently and it's an incredible set up

Next step, get to 250 hours, to start instructors rating, but out of budget for hour building now, so this will have to be begged borrowed and stealed, currently on 206 and following up on the contacts I have made during hourbuilding

Hope this helps

chopperchav

Congrats and good luck for future. I quit my job last week with view to doing cpl next year so very helpful to read your comments. I might be pestering you in the future for some more advice.

TheFlyingSquirrel

Hey Jemax - ever seen that show, the flying gardener? I think you better get in touch !!

g-mady

Hey jemax,

Really great post for someone like me,

Im about 90hrs PPL (H) at present and hoping to do what you have described,

You sound really motivated (with respect to the exams),

I just hope I can find that drive when studying,
Would full time learning be better? I know you chose not to because it was too slow!,

Any thoughts

Maddy