heedm

Does anybody know if you can get a Masters degree with the TP course at Empire?

Milt

Master Degree in Flight Testing.

Hope so and if so it will mean I have a degree as a graduate of No 14 course way back in the 50s. There was no affiliation to any university in my day.

John Farley - do we have degrees.?

Raymond Ginardon

I believe it counts 60 (?) points towards an OU Masters (although it should count for a LOT more!) - used to be 180 points for an OU Masters.

I can find out fairly easily and PM you (I did an OU Masters and have all the gen lying around somewhere).

Ray

CAC Runaway

You can indeed get a masters degree from the course but it requires an extra 4 months or so's work whilst resident at Cranfield University to get it. If you are a Brit doing the course I doubt your would get permission from your new Sqn boss (be it RWTS, FJTS or HATS) to disappear for the time right at the start of your new post when someone has left for you to join. Besides that..another 4 months of aircraft dynamics stuff....not for me thanks!!

John Farley

Milt

Not by graduating from ETPS.

But seriously what has graduating from a course like ETPS got to do with a 'degree'?

Being upside down you may not know that at present 43% of UK kids go to Uni and HMG is trying to make that 50%. What percentage of those do you feel would pass the FW or RW course? So why would you want a piece of paper that says you have reached the same level as 43% of todays youngsters let alone 50?

Have you no ambition Sir?

BigGreenPleasureMachine

CAC speaks the truth. This year there were two from the flight test engineering graduate course.

I don't know if the Cranfield Master's option is open to the pilots, although if you don't have a bachelor's degree (or some other fairly serious grounding in applied physics), the course would be a bit tough. Having said that, the more knowledge a TP has about aircraft dynamics the better, i would venture.

While JF is correct about 43% of schools leavers going to uni, the bachelor's degrees they study for are not nearly at the academic level expected from a postgraduate master's student at Cranfield. (and I'm not sure that 43% graduate anyway)

How many would pass FW or RW at ETPS? Depends on how many can fly to begin with I expect

Genghis the Engineer

For that matter, a very small proportion of the population could handle a degree in aerospace Engineering (/flight mechanics / flight test); not all degrees are equal, any more than the level of flying ability needed to pass an fATPL and get in the right hand seat of a airliner equates to the standard needed to enter TPS or work as a TP.

I'd have thought however than any TP would be well equipped to complete a Masters, whilst a fair proportion could probably teach much of it - so long as they had an FTE to help with the maths. But, it's a different beast to TPS - inevitably, it's done in a different environment for different purposes.

G

John Farley

Isn't that the truth!

A good flight test team (minimum one tp one FTE - but of course could be much larger) must be able to cope with everything that the programme involves between them.

Depending on the aircraft type this may require the maths of advanced flight control systems and if there is flight control software involved then software maths is another must.

Maths at college was not my strongest point (that is what people say about their worst subject is it not?) but the tp in even the minimum team does bring other skills to the team effort so I would never suggest that excellent maths was a pre requisite of a tp.

However he/she must NOT have a chip on their shoulder that says maths is not important (like some I have known) and their ability to sit down with those who do have maths skills and no matter how long it takes help them understand what went on in the aeroplane is VITAL

Personally I think there is a case these days for a Flight Test degree laid out in modules. This degree syllabus would fully encompass all the roles of tp and FTE but there would be a choice in which modules you chose. For example the advanced flight test and aircraft system maths module or the aircraft handling/airmanship piloting side - to name but two possible valid modules

Exmil

Being OTC qualified by a different route (not ETPS), and with at least one Masters, I think it is worth pursuing a post-grad piece of paper to show something for your efforts for after you leave the FT environment or the Service. An example of where the ETPS course might go has been achieved by the RAF GD Aerosystems course, which has spent some time moving towards becoming a fully accredited MSc from the same starting point as ETPS (long and not straight forward course).

There's no harm in asking decent univerities whether they can offer credits on M level courses for both FT and non-FT related studies. There are also those that offer a modular approach like JF suggests.

There is a respectable uni that offers a choice of MSc courses that are aerospace related, that are p/t and require 12 modules to be completed from a choice of over 30. I had had enough of "hard" subjects and so took my credits to get ticks in the box for the (4) hard modules and then studied 8 business-related modules.

Perhaps the FT TNA work (see other thread) will conclude that everything should be modular, TP, FTE and QAS should all be rolled together, based in one place and result in MSc?

OoAyVee

If memory serves, ETPS long-course graduates can, if they apply, obtain a Bachelors Degree (Title unclear, but along the lines of Flight Dynamics & Performance...) from the University of Southampton. It may not be a Honours, I do not know, as Research is required for such, even though the 10-week Preview they do may count.

MobiusTrip

CAC, on the subject of a Masters from Cranfield (post ETPS) - do you (or does anyone for that matter) have any gen (or links) regarding eligibility for the Cranfield Masters for those who did the TP course overseas?

MT

BigGreenPleasureMachine

Mobius,

I don't know if there are specific entry requirements for TPs, but the general sp can be seen at:

http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/prospectus/course.cfm?id=52

Oh, and take all the bumpf about how great living and studying at Cranfield is with a large pinch of salt........

MobiusTrip

Thanks for the link BGPM (and the 'caution' about Cranfield!).

MT