Talk Turn

Topic probably covered before but first time here for me.
1000 hrs piston but little jet time.
Can anyone suggest a double cheap way to build hrs. any where in the world.
Thank you.

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PurplePitot

Try logging in Canada - Crap pay but loads of 206 time. Can,t help with an outfit i'm afraid.

Pinger

Talk turn, give us a clue...

Tell us what licence do you have and then we might be able to offer sensible advice.

Talk Turn

Fair point.
QHI
GR(H)
+700hrs instructing
R22/44
5hrs only on 206
What do you think??
Thanks

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[This message has been edited by Talk Turn (edited 09 April 2000).]

Talk Turn

Thanks
Sounds the sort of thing.
Going to Canada in Sept. so if anybody does know of a company I would be grateful.

Rotorbike

Cheapest place for 206 time is Los Angeles. You can fly traffic watch there for $110/hr which is by far the cheapest I have seen. Against it is that you won't start it and will fly from the left seat. But he that fly's gets PIC....... 562 691 2878 or [email protected]

Can't recommend the operation as I picked the information straight from Rotor and Wing.

Talk Turn

Thank you; I shall persue that.

Heliflyer

Christmas is coming up, and friends are asking me (as I'm a cheaper option) if I can take them up for a Thames Trip in the JetRanger which I hire.

I'm a PPL(H) holder.

I know I can only take a maximum of 3 pax
My question is how does the cost sharing work? I've asked two people and one says I must pay at least half (even if I have 2 or 3 pax), and the other says I must pay at least my share (that is, if I have 2 pax I pay at least 1/3, and if I have 3 pax I pay at least 1/4).

I presume landing fees and any VAT can also be split equally?

Finally, as my hunt through the ANO didn't reveal an answer (looking for a needle in a haystack), where is it in the ANO or Rules of the Air that says this.

Actually, one more "finally": does anyone have any opinions/gotchas/caveats/thoughts about cost sharing?

Darren

Rotor Nut

I have always operated on each person contributing their share - so for an R22 its half each, and for an R44 (with 4 pax) its a quarter each.

I seem to remember during my training reading that proportional shares are okay.

Whirlybird

I have certainly always heard that proportional shares are OK. Though I wouldn't like to give you an absolute guarantee.

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To fly is human, to hover, divine.

ShyTorque

I think there may have been an AIC on this subject but unfortunately I can't remember when.

offshoreigor

If the CAA rules are anything like Canada (CAR's) then any money recieved for the cost of the A/C or anything other would be considered to be a commercial hire. Since you hold a PPL(H) you have to be careful about how you declare any funds you recieve.

I would suggest you contact flyinglawyer for the definitive answer.

Cheers, OffshoreIgor



[This message has been edited by offshoreigor (edited 03 December 2000).]

Robbo Jock

You can share the costs of the flight with your passengers as long as there's no element of profit to yourself. If you split it equally between the four of you, there's no problem. What you can split is the actual costs of the flight itself - including VAT and Landing Fees. If you own the aircraft, you can't factor in any fixed charges such as a proportion of the parking charges or whatever. If you're renting it, no problem, just split the final bill four ways.

Offshoreigor: the CAA used to have the same system - if any money or payment in kind changed hands it was considered Hire or Reward. A few years ago they realised this was too Draconian even for them so they changed the wording from "Hire or Reward" to "Valuable Consideration", thus allowing sharing of the actual costs of a flight between the passengers and Pilot, as long as the Pilot made no element of profit.

I've hunted through the CAA site for a reference, but unfortunately I can't find it, sorry.

Dangrenade

Robbo Jock's got a valid point... as long as you don't profit from your flying you're sorted Debsatco... I just want to know how many hrs you have to hire a J>R on a PPL

212man

Good news: your passengers can pay for your portion too!

See Article 130 paras 8 and 10. The only constraint on PPLs receiving "valuable consideration" (dosh to you and me) is no more than 3 pax plus pilot.

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Another day in paradise

Heliflyer

Dangrenade: hiring a JetRanger on a PPL just requires a type conversion, which is 5 hours plus a flight test. But for insurance reasons, I needed to have 20 hours with a safety pilot (my instructor). As soon as I'd done those 20 hours, I was able to take the JetRanger solo. In fact, this was 20 hours "turbine time", my time's split between the JetRanger and the H500 (5 hours minimum on each though for the type conversions) with a bias towards the JetRanger. As soon as I'd clocked up 20 hours total, I took the H500 and the JetRanger up in the same weekend, around Snowdonia (we were doing a mountain flying course). Also, for that first solo flight in the JetRanger I took a pax up who's first flight it was in a helicopter.

enntwo

212man
Are you absolutley sure that the pax can pay for the entire flight with the PPL contributing nothing?
If your right, the law must have changed because the position used to be that the PPL had to pay at least his proportion of the cost.
Four pax, pilot must pay at least 25% etc.

Whirlybird

I always understood the situation to be exactly as enntwo describes it. It might be worth checking this with the CAA.

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Whirly

To fly is human, to hover, divine.

212man

Well, I tried without success to scan the page and OCR it, so here's the long hand version:

Article 130, para 8 (ii) (bb); The proportion which such contribution bears to the total direct costs of the flight shall not exceed the proportion which the number of persons carried on the flight (excluding the pilot) bears to the number of persons carried on the flight (including the pilot).

When I read this I came to my initial conclusion. Now I wouldn't like to say as it's late and I've had a busy day. Anyway, 130 is the article to read!

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Another day in paradise

Randy_g

Offshoreigor: I had a look at Canada's C.A.R.S. and they do allow a private pilot to recoup flying costs as in C.A.R. 401.28 (2) it reads as follows:

401.28(1) No holder of a private pilot licence shall act as the pilot of an aeroplane or helicopter for hire or reward unless the conditions set out in subsection (2), (3) or (4), as applicable, are met.

(2) The holder of a private pilot licence may receive reimbursement for costs incurred in respect of a flight where

(a) the holder is the owner or operator of the aircraft;

(b) the holder conducts the flight for purposes other than hire or reward;

(c) the holder carries passengers only incidentally to the purposes of the flight; and

(d) the reimbursement

(i) is provided only by the passengers referred to in paragraph (c), and

(ii) is for the purpose of sharing costs for fuel, oil and fees charged against the aircraft in respect of the flight, as applicable.

However, I recommend that anyone wanting to charge for flying should make sure that they read all regulations, and ensure that they follow all that apply.

I just wanted to clarify things.

Randy_G