Blade88

What age group does the industry favor when looking at an applicant? Is there an "age point" where the industry would rather higher some one younger who has less experience? I have noticed, it is not unusual for a large percent of EMS pilots in the US to be in their late 50s and 60s.

B Sousa

I think you will find in the real world that hiring is normally not from the stack of resumes, its from someone knowing someone and the reputation one carries.
Some companies vary, they want a youngster they can bring up there way who has got all the ratings they dont have to pay for. Others want someone they think will take them through a contract and move on so they dont have to increase pay and benefits. Still others will dangle a carrot and keep folks around with a title and little money. Its not just the helicopter world, life is tough out there..
Many friends who have been in the industry for years and by moving around, have little or no retirement waiting.. That means literally work till you die. If your in the Military and have been for a while, get a least the 20 so you will have something to fall back on. It may not be much but as long as your breathing air it pays for Bed and Beans. You can jump into the civilian scene later.

[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: B Sousa ]

GulfPLt

Blade,

Listen to Mr. Sousa. He has just given some great insight on the industry.

Blade88

Thanks for the info., I've got two years left with Uncle Sam, that will be my 20 year mark. Any advice for a Yank with 5K hours and a FAA CPL(H). We would love an interesting flying job in the UK or Europe?

mistoo

Am I too old at 40 to get a first job left seat, if I gain fATPL(H)IR ME? no personal restrictions, go anywhere-anytime etc.

Whirlybird

mistoo,

I'm older than you, and a friend who works for Bristows in Aberdeen asked someone there that question for me. She said they'd take me if I paid for my own IR. Of course the situation on the North Sea is changing frequently; she said before Sept 11th age might well not have been an issue at all. But it did sound as though if you can fund yourself for the lot you'd likely be in with a good chance. So good luck!

mistoo

Whirlybird.

Thanks very much for your reply, sounds encouraging. I was just about ready to call both oppo's up there to ask the question directly.. .ps. What are you doing job wise currently? Flying/training/other.. .Thanks again whirly.

Whirlybird

Well, can't do any harm to give them a call, especially as my info was second hand. But the one thing that's clear is that whatever they tell you today may be different tomorrow.

I'm saving my pennies to get another 100 hours and do the instructors course. Part time instructing, pleasure flights etc was all I ever planned to do from the start; I like what I do already - freelance research and writing with a huge amount of freedom to work as and when I want. I just want to get paid to fly helis too. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> But when I got my CPL last November I tried to check out what else was available, just to keep my options open. Seemed like if I didn't pay for my own IR there weren't any other options right now, so I went back to Plan A. A good excuse for a couple of flying holidays anyway - LA in April, probably Oz in the autumn, and that should get me the hours. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

mistoo

Whirlybird.

Good on you for doing what you want, sounds like you have it worked out. Of course I should have read your profile before banging on about what you do etc! Off the top of your head do you know if its a requirement to have an IR for each machine youre type rated on? If that is the case we are in the realms of being wealthy enough not to work for a living...especially busing hairy oilriggers around the N sea.

. ."thats some catch,that catch 22"

Whirlybird

Mistoo,

I'm fairly certain it's not, that you just need the one IR. But it's really not something I'm an expert on, since I never seriously considered getting it if I had to pay for it myself.

[ 20 February 2002: Message edited by: Whirlybird ]</p>

StevieTerrier

Whirly / Mistoo. Sorry to be the bearer of bad (i.e. expensive) tidings, but I'm afraid IR's are type-specific. Now if we were living in the good old U.S. of A......

mistoo

Stevie Terrier.

Should have known from the churning feeling in the pitt of my stomach that would be the answer!

Guess its true "if they don't get you in the wash, they will get you in the spin"...

Any attempts at how much a Puma/S puma IR stands you in these days? many bright and shiny coins!. .Thanks all.

roundwego

In the UK, the IR is type specific but it is the initial IR which the twin operator will be looking for and that could be on any twin helicopter. For instance, you will not be expected to have to pay for your own Super Puma IR before a NS company will employ you .

If you are offered a job, the operator would likely provide you with a conversion course which would include a IR on the new type. This would more than likely be covered by a bonding agreement.

finalchecksplease

Having flown on the North Sea myself I am pretty sure they (Scotia, Bristow) don’t require an IR on type (AS332, S61, S76, AS365), but as always give them a call and get it from the horse mouth!. .The initial IR will require around 30 hrs flying (check JAR rules) but to get you an extra type you only need a couple hrs, so it doesn’t cost them as much!. .You might be able to get your initial IR on the Jet Ranger with the Bristow training school (if they still use it for IR training) that should work out cheaper than the twins other training schools use, give them a call.

Whirlybird

mistoo,

When I was vaguely considering the North Sea (or at least everyone else was saying that's what I should do) a couple of people in Aberdeen reckoned £15,000 for an IR. But I have a vague memory of someone since then being quoted £23,500. But you'd really be better to give Bristows a call than rely on my bad memory.

Rotorbike

Bristow charge 120 an hour for the sim, and 520 for the BH206 leading to a single engine only IFR rating.

Cabair charge 110 an hour for the sim, 200 for the R22 and 850 for the AS355. Leading to a AS355 twin IFR rating.

PAS (Police Aviation Services) are the only other company doing training. They use a simulator and AS355.

All prices plus VAT and Nav/approach, landing charges.

It now all depends on if you are adding the Instrument rating to a UK or JAA licence as to what your training requirements are. UK licences will get dispensations till Dec 2002, there are currently no JAA dispensations. You must have a type rating in the aircraft before doing the checkride.

Last year the North Sea companies were taking anyone with a Commercial Helicopter licence and could walk. This year it isn't quite the same.

The North Sea requirements are currently a minimum of a Commercial/Instrument but could change at any time.

An Instrument Helicopter rating in the UK will set you back somewhere between 10K and 40K sterling depending on what your training requirements and aircraft choice is.

<img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

CyclicRick

I've talked too Bristows and Scotia about this recently, at the moment they are not recruiting at all. Apparently after Sept.11 and the reductions on pilots the part of the airlines all the ex-helicopter chaps are streaming back fully qualified so there's not much chance for us at the moment until they all go back.. .For a helicopter IR I was quoted anywhere between 25 and 40K Sterling by some 'leading' training organizations. The worst thing is I've got an ATPL but woefully neither UK or JAA and converting it is a nightmare at the moment

mistoo

hmmm. curiouser and curiouser, certainly got some conflicting stories from FTO's recently concerning the employment side...."no english guys coming through so norwegians and americans being employed" and "don't worry about the fixed wing types coming back they will be off as soon as the sun starts shining again", if it is the case that the FW's are being employed surely the oppo's will see this as just a short term(until upturn)affair, they are going to want to get back to the g&t+ cabin crue entertainment asap aren't they?

. ." I don't like it...its just too quiet out there"

Whirlybird

mistoo,

I'm sure there are many people here who are closer to this than I am, but I'll tell you what I've heard anyway. According to my North Sea pilot friend, those now in charge don't look that far ahead; they should, but they don't. So that when I asked in early November, it seemed very likely that I was in with a chance even being the wrong side of 40 and without an IR, by December I would have needed an IR and nothing sounded certain anyway, and now they're not recruiting at all. Meanwhile rumours abound of people being accepted with or without anything and everything. And people who phone up on the right day and manage to jump the queue. And people who...you name it, persistence or luck may or may not get you anywhere.

Everyone agrees that when the airlines pick up the dual qualified guys will go straight back. But when will that be? who knows. So what do you do? I've no idea; nothing is certain in this world, and probably that applies to flying helicopters for a living more than practically anything else. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Draco

My understanding is that you need to do the IR in a helicopter that is valid for IFR operations.

That, with the exception of one jetranger owned by Bristows, means a twin. Elswhere, especially in the US, the restrictions are nowhere near as tough.

As a consequence, an IR in this country is vv expensive, as the twin squirrel is probably the "cheapest". The traditional route was for the North Sea operators to pay for the IR and your conversion in return for a service contract of several years.

Good luck