RAF to get up to 10 MQ9 Reapers
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BPLT,
That is one aspect. However, UAVs such as Reaper are highly advanced and pretty high value in their own right. The loss of one or 2 can significantly impact ops, especially at a key moment. We're probably not far off seeing defensive systems being placed on MALE UAVs.
MM
That is one aspect. However, UAVs such as Reaper are highly advanced and pretty high value in their own right. The loss of one or 2 can significantly impact ops, especially at a key moment. We're probably not far off seeing defensive systems being placed on MALE UAVs.
MM
Yes, it's no longer the case that the Unpersonned Aircraft is just sent where it is too dangerous to use normal aircraft.....
They should not be thought of as 'cheap, dsiposable' systems. Which augment but do not replace conventional aircraft.
During a meeting we had not long agao, the increasing sophistication and cost of the Unpersonned Aircraft was raised - because by becoming too sophisticated and HVAA in nature, they were in some danger of becoming too valuable to risk in certain scenarios. Rather defeating their purpose.
They should not be thought of as 'cheap, dsiposable' systems. Which augment but do not replace conventional aircraft.
During a meeting we had not long agao, the increasing sophistication and cost of the Unpersonned Aircraft was raised - because by becoming too sophisticated and HVAA in nature, they were in some danger of becoming too valuable to risk in certain scenarios. Rather defeating their purpose.
Last edited by BEagle; 6th Jan 2008 at 06:40.
Pardon me for asking, I think it's excellent that you chaps are getting more of the required kit..........but how are you go to find the presonnel to run it?
I thought you were desperately short ......so will you drop a capability, especially with more C17s on their way too? So who's going to operate it? Not sure you've increased your throughput in pilot and engineer training have you?
I thought you were desperately short ......so will you drop a capability, especially with more C17s on their way too? So who's going to operate it? Not sure you've increased your throughput in pilot and engineer training have you?
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So if we have bought the system does that mean we actually have our own satellites to provide the US - theatre link?
Or has that bit been forgotten? Or are we 100% dependent on the US?
I don't know - but I suspect it is that latter which may be interesting when we want to do something on our own.
Or has that bit been forgotten? Or are we 100% dependent on the US?
I don't know - but I suspect it is that latter which may be interesting when we want to do something on our own.
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The rules for an Urgent Operational Requirement were something like "lasts for 6 months, no training, support, extra manning etc." I'm pretty sure they have changed the time frames and support now as we rely on them so much. Anyone more informed feel free to correct me 
Basically we have brought them to provide/improve a capability in theatre ASAP; they are not necessarily a long term solution.
Basically we have brought them to provide/improve a capability in theatre ASAP; they are not necessarily a long term solution.
My previous experience of UORs is that 'kit' bought under a UOR stays on an aircraft for 5-6 years, maybe longer, before the money is found to catch up with the 'training, support, manpower, etc' to support it in the long term!
Items purchased under UORs are often long term requirements, but the UOR approach is a way of finding the money for them and getting them into service quickly.
Whether any/all of this applies in this particular case (Reaper) I am not in a position to say!
Items purchased under UORs are often long term requirements, but the UOR approach is a way of finding the money for them and getting them into service quickly.
Whether any/all of this applies in this particular case (Reaper) I am not in a position to say!
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Biggus my experience is the same, however I think this is being addressed. AFAIK UORs now have 2 years grace before they either get removed or fully incorporated (outside my expertise) on to some platforms.
I also agree that UORs are used to get equipment that is needed long term, this has been going on for many years now and masks issues like under funding and failures in procurement. It's probably a result of great money saving ideas like "just in time" and "fitted for, not with". Unfortunately many of the items purchased by this method could have been brought into service and trained with years ago, but we are skint
and have been for sometime. For example MALE UAV (girly RPVs?) have been in use for a few years with other countries we would traditionally rank below our forces.
The reason I expanded on the UOR nature of Reaper was in response to Chris's post re: satellite links and doing something on our own. These are not an issue as it was purchased for the current situation as an UOR.
I also agree that UORs are used to get equipment that is needed long term, this has been going on for many years now and masks issues like under funding and failures in procurement. It's probably a result of great money saving ideas like "just in time" and "fitted for, not with". Unfortunately many of the items purchased by this method could have been brought into service and trained with years ago, but we are skint
and have been for sometime. For example MALE UAV (girly RPVs?) have been in use for a few years with other countries we would traditionally rank below our forces.The reason I expanded on the UOR nature of Reaper was in response to Chris's post re: satellite links and doing something on our own. These are not an issue as it was purchased for the current situation as an UOR.
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My apologies Chris, there is no info on how the new buy has been funded 
A couple of articles, the second is interesting mentions weapons and Reapers over London in 2012?
http://www.janes.com/news/defence/ai...1119_1_n.shtml
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-december.html
A couple of articles, the second is interesting mentions weapons and Reapers over London in 2012?
http://www.janes.com/news/defence/ai...1119_1_n.shtml
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-december.html
Magic Mushroom
On the subject of survivability I do believe you are a little economical with the truth. The Serbians were sh!t scared to launch anything let alone against an unarmed Predator and your comment
is grossly underestimated as even our own side were bringing them down.
I can remember a day over Iraq when the Eagles were mightily distressed because a couple of ANG Vipers were vectored by a USAF AWACS onto a wayward Predator (no Magics on NFZ duties then, so you probably never saw this) - needless to say the Predator didn't last long!
Predators and Reapers are great when there is no air threat or we have Air Superiority, Air Supremacy or even Air Dominance. Still according to all the 2Gp warriors we don't need FJs anymore do we? I will laugh my c@ck off when we lose all our 2Gp assets in the first week of a proper air war and you'll know who I am as I'll be wearing a "told you so" t-shirt and a very smug grin. By the way, if I have to fly close escort on a Predator/Reaper then you may as well put a recce pod on my jet and I'll look after myself!
I agree with Beagle - I had a Jindivik in Cardigan Bay once and UAVs and RPVs are my kind of target
LJ
On the subject of survivability I do believe you are a little economical with the truth. The Serbians were sh!t scared to launch anything let alone against an unarmed Predator and your comment
whilst the Iraqis were a little more sucessful
I can remember a day over Iraq when the Eagles were mightily distressed because a couple of ANG Vipers were vectored by a USAF AWACS onto a wayward Predator (no Magics on NFZ duties then, so you probably never saw this) - needless to say the Predator didn't last long!
Predators and Reapers are great when there is no air threat or we have Air Superiority, Air Supremacy or even Air Dominance. Still according to all the 2Gp warriors we don't need FJs anymore do we? I will laugh my c@ck off when we lose all our 2Gp assets in the first week of a proper air war and you'll know who I am as I'll be wearing a "told you so" t-shirt and a very smug grin. By the way, if I have to fly close escort on a Predator/Reaper then you may as well put a recce pod on my jet and I'll look after myself!
I agree with Beagle - I had a Jindivik in Cardigan Bay once and UAVs and RPVs are my kind of target
LJ
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Leon,
Care to put the T-shirt on now?
Could also apply to the F3, has it ever been over the start line?
I will laugh my c@ck off when we lose all our 2Gp assets in the first week of a proper air war and you'll know who I am as I'll be wearing a "told you so" t-shirt and a very smug grin.
Predators and Reapers are great when there is no air threat or we have Air Superiority, Air Supremacy or even Air Dominance.
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here's what the first one looks like for those who don't know:
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...fghanistan.htm
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...fghanistan.htm
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leon,
I was aware of the Iraqi incident although I'm a little taken aback by your comment regarding the Serbs. They launched more fixed wing than has been acknowledged and fired off an impressive amount of SAMs and AAA (albeit much of the former was ballistic). However, numerous Pred As operated for extended periods deep inside Serbia.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting MQ-9s are going to survive against a decent unhindered air threat. Just that they do have applications in an environment with a conventional threat.
Err, I don't know who's said that matey. Although it could be suggested that current expenditure could be a little more equitably allocated between 1 and 2 Gps, I've not heard anyone suggesting we don't need FJ apart from the Army. Don't worry though, I also used to be paranoid until I realised people hated me anyway!!
Ivan,
Many, many times and in it's current form it's actually quite a capable asset.
Regards,
MM
I was aware of the Iraqi incident although I'm a little taken aback by your comment regarding the Serbs. They launched more fixed wing than has been acknowledged and fired off an impressive amount of SAMs and AAA (albeit much of the former was ballistic). However, numerous Pred As operated for extended periods deep inside Serbia.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting MQ-9s are going to survive against a decent unhindered air threat. Just that they do have applications in an environment with a conventional threat.
Still according to all the 2Gp warriors we don't need FJs anymore do we?
Could also apply to the F3, has it ever been over the start line?
Many, many times and in it's current form it's actually quite a capable asset.
Regards,
MM
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MM I know and I would hope it is capable after 20 years of development, it was a lame dig at Leon due to the poor coments in his post, he doesn't seem to be much of a team player!
Apologies to all F3 fans.
Apologies to all F3 fans.
