PAX trying to use his mobile phone - was I right or wrong?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Marston Moretaine, UK
Age: 58
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PAX trying to use his mobile phone - was I right or wrong?
I was on a KLM flight from LHR to AMS recently, and the gentleman in the seat next to me was clearly trying to use his mobile.
This was after the PA announcement that all mobiles must be switched off, while the plane was still on the ground. After that announcement he was using it quite openly, until the purser saw him and told him very firmly to switch it off.
At that point he replied that he wasn't using it to send anything, just to look at texts he'd received; the purser again told him to switch it off, and said she was waiting for him until it was switched off.
Once the purser had gone, he again was looking at his mobile which was clearly not switched off.
It was at this point that I said to him: "If you do not switch that off, I will call the cabin crew and tell them what you are doing."
The gentleman in question was somewhat upset by this, saying that I had no right to talk to him like that, etc. but he didn't try to use his mobile again.
So was I right to do this? Or should I have actually called the cabin crew to deal with it?
This was after the PA announcement that all mobiles must be switched off, while the plane was still on the ground. After that announcement he was using it quite openly, until the purser saw him and told him very firmly to switch it off.
At that point he replied that he wasn't using it to send anything, just to look at texts he'd received; the purser again told him to switch it off, and said she was waiting for him until it was switched off.
Once the purser had gone, he again was looking at his mobile which was clearly not switched off.
It was at this point that I said to him: "If you do not switch that off, I will call the cabin crew and tell them what you are doing."
The gentleman in question was somewhat upset by this, saying that I had no right to talk to him like that, etc. but he didn't try to use his mobile again.
So was I right to do this? Or should I have actually called the cabin crew to deal with it?
Paxing All Over The World
A question oft discussed in this salubrious cabin ... my view is Yes and I have done the same, although it was on arrival. Potentially, he is putting your life at risk and one might say, "You can endanger your own life but the Captain and this airline has asked you not to endanger all of our lives."
If he persists then, in my view, a call to CC is the only course of action. If he then makes a loud protest or really starts to object, he will find that he is threatened with being removed from the flight. If he still continues, then ejection from the a/c and his return ticket will be torn up. In some countries, when a person gets ejected from an a/c before departure for unruly behaviour - they call the Police. Yaaay!!!
If he persists then, in my view, a call to CC is the only course of action. If he then makes a loud protest or really starts to object, he will find that he is threatened with being removed from the flight. If he still continues, then ejection from the a/c and his return ticket will be torn up. In some countries, when a person gets ejected from an a/c before departure for unruly behaviour - they call the Police. Yaaay!!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ill thank you too!!!
I have a cheeky (yet polite) little PA which I make which usually goes along the lines..."Please now switch off all mobile phones/Remain seated/No Smoking (whatever the situation really).......if not for your own safety then please consider the safety of those around you!"!!!! Usually guilts the offenders into obeying the rules! lol
I have a cheeky (yet polite) little PA which I make which usually goes along the lines..."Please now switch off all mobile phones/Remain seated/No Smoking (whatever the situation really).......if not for your own safety then please consider the safety of those around you!"!!!! Usually guilts the offenders into obeying the rules! lol
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can someone please explain how it is acceptable for flightcrew to use their mobiles during a flight but not the paying punter?
I've been on flights when the cabin crew (a UK carrier) are on their mobiles and I've been on a jump seat (non UK carrier) when the flight deck were talking to Crewing about their future rosters during a flight. The FO even interrupted his call to make a PA to the passengers.
I've been on flights when the cabin crew (a UK carrier) are on their mobiles and I've been on a jump seat (non UK carrier) when the flight deck were talking to Crewing about their future rosters during a flight. The FO even interrupted his call to make a PA to the passengers.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: About 1 mile from WOD ndb
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually . . .
I am now going to put myself at horrible risk. Not by using my mobile, but by stating the simple fact that use of a mobile telephone on an aircraft poses no known risk. I won't go into this chapter and verse -- it's all too long and boring -- but this is yet another myth.
Having said that -- and all those who are about to flame me please read this bit -- there is no excuse for failing to obey the instructions of the flight/cabin crew. So I always obediently do as I am told, for it is not my place to argue.
DerekL, sitting quietly, with his mobile firmly off, awaiting incoming.
Having said that -- and all those who are about to flame me please read this bit -- there is no excuse for failing to obey the instructions of the flight/cabin crew. So I always obediently do as I am told, for it is not my place to argue.
DerekL, sitting quietly, with his mobile firmly off, awaiting incoming.
Paxing All Over The World
derekl Yes, this subject has been discussed here on many, many occasions in the short time I have been reading PPRuNe. I took/take an interest in the matter as I worked in telecommunications for 27 years and started working with radio telephony in 1981.
I have read all the threads, including pilots telling us of unusual instrument responses and so forth. My own mind is still open, I have heard both sides and I believe both sides are sincere but, if a carrier has decided to ban mobile (cellular) telephones on their aircraft, then they are banned.
The same goes for hospitals where they are concerned about equipment being affected by the signal. Currently, I am regularly visiting a friend in hospital and it seems that everyone is using phones all over the place, despite instructions to the contrary.
Call me old fashioned, I do not use my phone in hospitals or aircraft, once instructed not to do so.
I have read all the threads, including pilots telling us of unusual instrument responses and so forth. My own mind is still open, I have heard both sides and I believe both sides are sincere but, if a carrier has decided to ban mobile (cellular) telephones on their aircraft, then they are banned.
The same goes for hospitals where they are concerned about equipment being affected by the signal. Currently, I am regularly visiting a friend in hospital and it seems that everyone is using phones all over the place, despite instructions to the contrary.
Call me old fashioned, I do not use my phone in hospitals or aircraft, once instructed not to do so.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: World's Most Liveable City
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
derekl "the simple fact that use of a mobile telephone on an aircraft poses no known risk. I won't go into this chapter and verse -- it's all too long and boring -- but this is yet another myth."
CASA's myth-Centre Has research moved since 2003?
BD
CASA's myth-Centre Has research moved since 2003?
BD
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Iv sat on the flightdeck while taxiing once and overheard that familiar mobile interference (which you hear if a mobile is receiving a signal next to a radio or Computer) come through the earpieces in the flightdeck. I imagine that in critical situations this could be highly dangerous!!!
There are several instrument approach plates around at the moment which have a 'loss of communication' procedure instructions to phone this number for further instructions. You'd have to use your mobile phone.
I've forgotten to switch my phone off several times before a sector and about the only effect I've seen is a flat battery caused by the phone constantly searching for an active cell. When you first switch your phone on it transmits at max power until it establishes contact with a useable cell, then powers down to what it needs to remain in contact. In any case it's only a couple of watts.
Now having said all that, on the odd occasion where you end up in a holding pattern during your descent, and are therefore going to be late, is the time when the punters get out their phones to let their friends know about the delay. The phones will work ok as you are more or less over the same bit of dirt, but this is when you sometimes get strange autopilot behaviour such as twitches through the controls and unusual responses to autoflight inputs. A quick PA to cease using the phones instantly stops the odd aeroplane behaviour.
I do believe however that despite fairly extensive testing, under controlled conditions, replication of the problem has been all but impossible, so nothing has been proven, but interference does happen from time to time.
Regards,
BH.
I've forgotten to switch my phone off several times before a sector and about the only effect I've seen is a flat battery caused by the phone constantly searching for an active cell. When you first switch your phone on it transmits at max power until it establishes contact with a useable cell, then powers down to what it needs to remain in contact. In any case it's only a couple of watts.
Now having said all that, on the odd occasion where you end up in a holding pattern during your descent, and are therefore going to be late, is the time when the punters get out their phones to let their friends know about the delay. The phones will work ok as you are more or less over the same bit of dirt, but this is when you sometimes get strange autopilot behaviour such as twitches through the controls and unusual responses to autoflight inputs. A quick PA to cease using the phones instantly stops the odd aeroplane behaviour.
I do believe however that despite fairly extensive testing, under controlled conditions, replication of the problem has been all but impossible, so nothing has been proven, but interference does happen from time to time.
Regards,
BH.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: E/E Bay
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The point a lot of you miss is that there most certainly will be dozens of mobile phones on board. So I'm afraid it's one rule for one, one rule for all.
So derekl, your mobile may not pose a risk at a given time, but if the other 100 cell phones sharing the same metal tube with you join the party, you sure as hell are going to multiply the risk of, for example, the flight directors going off in different directions.
So derekl, your mobile may not pose a risk at a given time, but if the other 100 cell phones sharing the same metal tube with you join the party, you sure as hell are going to multiply the risk of, for example, the flight directors going off in different directions.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: About 1 mile from WOD ndb
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
apaddyinuk:
"Iv sat on the flightdeck while taxiing once and overheard that familiar mobile interference (which you hear if a mobile is receiving a signal next to a radio or Computer) come through the earpieces in the flightdeck. I imagine that in critical situations this could be highly dangerous!!!"
I'll lay you odds that the phone in question was about the person of someone on the flightdeck . . .
"Iv sat on the flightdeck while taxiing once and overheard that familiar mobile interference (which you hear if a mobile is receiving a signal next to a radio or Computer) come through the earpieces in the flightdeck. I imagine that in critical situations this could be highly dangerous!!!"
I'll lay you odds that the phone in question was about the person of someone on the flightdeck . . .
Petrol stations too
I know this drifts away slightly from the main point of the thread, but anyhow....
Mobile phones are not supposed to be used in petrol stations either (same goes in the vicintiy of aircraft refuelling), due to the apparent 'risk' of explosion. Yet a few years ago in the UK press it was revealed that some mobile phone masts were actually located in the signage outside the petrol station forecourt.
So the explosion 'risk' was obviously not a huge concern when the petrol companies were being paid to have masts in the signs.
Mobile phones are not supposed to be used in petrol stations either (same goes in the vicintiy of aircraft refuelling), due to the apparent 'risk' of explosion. Yet a few years ago in the UK press it was revealed that some mobile phone masts were actually located in the signage outside the petrol station forecourt.
So the explosion 'risk' was obviously not a huge concern when the petrol companies were being paid to have masts in the signs.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: About 1 mile from WOD ndb
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Beer_n_Tabs:
Another urban myth. When asked, the reason given is always a "filling station blew up in Aamerica/Australia/Germany . . .". No known incident has been recorded.
It's well-nigh impossible to build a fuel/air mix in the open air that will ignite. If sparks caused by metal to metal contact in the presence of an RF field are alleged to be the cause, the max 2 watts from your phone would pale to insignificance beside the 50 watts from the base antenna in the filling station's "tombstone" sign.
If it were easy to blow up filling stations, many other sources of ignition would have come into play by now: hot exhaust manifolds, "sparky" electric door locks and so on.
Shell filling stations typically have T-mobile bases (50W at 1.8Ghz) in them.
As for aircraft refuelling -- ever seen the guys using their radios during the process?
Another urban myth. When asked, the reason given is always a "filling station blew up in Aamerica/Australia/Germany . . .". No known incident has been recorded.
It's well-nigh impossible to build a fuel/air mix in the open air that will ignite. If sparks caused by metal to metal contact in the presence of an RF field are alleged to be the cause, the max 2 watts from your phone would pale to insignificance beside the 50 watts from the base antenna in the filling station's "tombstone" sign.
If it were easy to blow up filling stations, many other sources of ignition would have come into play by now: hot exhaust manifolds, "sparky" electric door locks and so on.
Shell filling stations typically have T-mobile bases (50W at 1.8Ghz) in them.
As for aircraft refuelling -- ever seen the guys using their radios during the process?
Right with you there derekl
Been there my friend..... I spoke to the fuel farm on my mobile while standing with the fueller and his bowser under the wing of a 747F. Funnily enough Mr Refueller didn't seem to panic much, neither did I, nor the flight engineer and our eyebrows didn't even get lightly charred !
As for aircraft refuelling -- ever seen the guys using their radios during the process?
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: USA
Age: 66
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Iv sat on the flightdeck while taxiing once and overheard that familiar mobile interference (which you hear if a mobile is receiving a signal next to a radio or Computer) come through the earpieces in the flightdeck
Secondly (and no defence for disobeying a direct instruction) could the chaps phone been in "Flight Safe" mode?
Final input here. A pal of mine who is a captain for a very well known British airline once told me of HIS phone ringing just as they got airborne abroad...no sin? cast the first stone!
Paxing All Over The World
Sat phones that are installed in the A/c have been integrated with the electrical and electronic systems. They use aerials that are supposed to be used and are a known device.
Having 50/150/+ mobile (cell) phones suddenly try and acquire a signal when a delay is announced - is an unknown quantity of devices that are not integrated into the a/c systems.
derekl I dare say that the phone in question may sometimes belong to flight or cabin crew, but the request is switch off all phones, to minimise risk. In due time, the risk may be better quantified and reduced. I agree that petrol (gas) stations are another example of undue precaution that has more to do with lawyers than reality. Until we know more about these devices on a/c, I am happy to help enforcing the ban.
Having 50/150/+ mobile (cell) phones suddenly try and acquire a signal when a delay is announced - is an unknown quantity of devices that are not integrated into the a/c systems.
derekl I dare say that the phone in question may sometimes belong to flight or cabin crew, but the request is switch off all phones, to minimise risk. In due time, the risk may be better quantified and reduced. I agree that petrol (gas) stations are another example of undue precaution that has more to do with lawyers than reality. Until we know more about these devices on a/c, I am happy to help enforcing the ban.
Sorry, I didn't make it clear previously...
Although I do think that the restrictions on mobiles are bu
it, I am a good boy and comply at all times, and certianly wouldn't consider getting into a discussion with CC's regarding usage.
Anyway, sometimes its nice to have an excuse to turn the damn thing off for a while just so it doesn't bloody ring
PAX, thanks for the info on Sat Phones too
Cheers
B_n_T
Although I do think that the restrictions on mobiles are bu
it, I am a good boy and comply at all times, and certianly wouldn't consider getting into a discussion with CC's regarding usage. Anyway, sometimes its nice to have an excuse to turn the damn thing off for a while just so it doesn't bloody ring
PAX, thanks for the info on Sat Phones too
Cheers
B_n_T