Leaving before your bond is up
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Leaving before your bond is up
Hello,
I would really appreciate some of your views on my predicament, one I am actually very fortunate to be in.
I am very lucky to have what I believe to be a great flying job, I love the aircraft, the routes, people I fly with and its everything I could have hoped for in a first job, in any job. Unfortunately like many others I have a very significant debt to pay back for my training and I am just keeping myself above water at the moment. I knew it would be like this and I’m not complaining, but after the initial awe of the job has passed, whilst I still love it, feel like a kid everytime we start up etc etc, I am looking at the bills and my responsibilities, the balance is moving in the other direction.
Being a loyal type of person I have and had every intention of working my bond and staying with the company for many years, what more could I want from a flying job I asked myself?
Well…money actually. It’s a sad fact that as the market is very buoyant at the moment the temptation to join a larger company with the prospect of earning more albeit in a job I’m sure I would enjoy less would make home life so much easier. The grass is always greener isn’t it?
My question then, what would you do? I am confident that I could gain employment with another airline and solve all my money worries in one step, but saying goodbye to this job and the people feels wrong. On the other hand the market won’t stay like this forever and I don’t want to miss the boat, individuals in the company have urged me to seriously consider the implications of getting stuck here.
Perhaps this is more a discussion topic than a please give me an answer, only I can make the decision but hearing from anyone who has been here would be of great benefit.
Thank you
I would really appreciate some of your views on my predicament, one I am actually very fortunate to be in.
I am very lucky to have what I believe to be a great flying job, I love the aircraft, the routes, people I fly with and its everything I could have hoped for in a first job, in any job. Unfortunately like many others I have a very significant debt to pay back for my training and I am just keeping myself above water at the moment. I knew it would be like this and I’m not complaining, but after the initial awe of the job has passed, whilst I still love it, feel like a kid everytime we start up etc etc, I am looking at the bills and my responsibilities, the balance is moving in the other direction.
Being a loyal type of person I have and had every intention of working my bond and staying with the company for many years, what more could I want from a flying job I asked myself?
Well…money actually. It’s a sad fact that as the market is very buoyant at the moment the temptation to join a larger company with the prospect of earning more albeit in a job I’m sure I would enjoy less would make home life so much easier. The grass is always greener isn’t it?
My question then, what would you do? I am confident that I could gain employment with another airline and solve all my money worries in one step, but saying goodbye to this job and the people feels wrong. On the other hand the market won’t stay like this forever and I don’t want to miss the boat, individuals in the company have urged me to seriously consider the implications of getting stuck here.
Perhaps this is more a discussion topic than a please give me an answer, only I can make the decision but hearing from anyone who has been here would be of great benefit.
Thank you
Join Date: Jun 2004
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There is an awful lot to be said for loyalty, integrity, and having a sense of what is right and wrong.
Sadly, aviation is not one of those industries these days
If it makes sense financially...and it suits you to move..then move
Put the shoe on your employers' foot for a second...if it suited them to make you redundant, how long do you think it would take to make that decision?
As for the bond, well, that depends on the arrangement you entered into.
Sadly, aviation is not one of those industries these days
If it makes sense financially...and it suits you to move..then move
Put the shoe on your employers' foot for a second...if it suited them to make you redundant, how long do you think it would take to make that decision?
As for the bond, well, that depends on the arrangement you entered into.
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asecretidentity,
I have done just that. I have been working for the last one and a half years with a UK charter company (merged today!!) on the Airbus, and this is my first job. Last week I handed in my notice with half the bond remaining(£7500). I had to look two years ahead to see the real benefits. Granted, I have no debt from training so I am in a slightly different position from you. I do not think anybody can answer this question for you as all our circumstances are slightly different, but do not feel any loyalty to your employer. You only have to look at the recent mergers between MYT/T.Cook and today First Choice/Tui, and you will see a lot of very nervous pilots who are only a number within their company.
Good luck whatever your choice.
I have done just that. I have been working for the last one and a half years with a UK charter company (merged today!!) on the Airbus, and this is my first job. Last week I handed in my notice with half the bond remaining(£7500). I had to look two years ahead to see the real benefits. Granted, I have no debt from training so I am in a slightly different position from you. I do not think anybody can answer this question for you as all our circumstances are slightly different, but do not feel any loyalty to your employer. You only have to look at the recent mergers between MYT/T.Cook and today First Choice/Tui, and you will see a lot of very nervous pilots who are only a number within their company.
Good luck whatever your choice.
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There is very little loyalty in this industry and I agree with the other posts. Do what is right for you not what you think your company would like of you. You only work for them, they are not your life masters!
If it makes you feel guilty leaving, then remember this (you are releasing a vacancy for a wanabee who wants to join your present airline). I personally wouldn't leave under any clouds (ie paying my bond back).
If you entered a contractual agreement then I think it should be honored as you accepted the terms in good faith when you signed up. Anyway, the industry is still a small place....... if you catch my drift!!
Good luck with whatever you decide
FJ
If it makes you feel guilty leaving, then remember this (you are releasing a vacancy for a wanabee who wants to join your present airline). I personally wouldn't leave under any clouds (ie paying my bond back).
If you entered a contractual agreement then I think it should be honored as you accepted the terms in good faith when you signed up. Anyway, the industry is still a small place....... if you catch my drift!!Good luck with whatever you decide
FJ
Errrrr... in my book paying the bond back absolutely doesn't represent the breach of contract. So if you have the money, pay it and move on. If your boss starts ranting about loyalty while paying you peanuts, consider yourself lucky for having escaped. One thing I wouldn't recommend is just running away.
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Leg it mate. Don't pay em a penny. They are quick enough to shaft you. Besides, you are the minow and they are the corporate giant. Life is too short to be bothered about trivia. Take a page out of T. Blair's book on red nose nite. Bovered????
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Asecretidentity - just remember that by leaving mid bond you are increasing your debt as you will owe the company the unworked portion, would this be better or worse than continuing as you are?
Don't be swayed by Modderator's 'advice', it is totally wrong and could very well lead you into much more serious trouble with you present employer, who may take you to court thus causing you to incur legal fees as well and trouble with a future employer who won't be too keen to take on a bond breaker - word gets round.
Have you considered going and talking to your management? You may be surprised at how reasonable they can be if you present your circumstances honestly, I suggest you give that a try first.
Best of luck.
Don't be swayed by Modderator's 'advice', it is totally wrong and could very well lead you into much more serious trouble with you present employer, who may take you to court thus causing you to incur legal fees as well and trouble with a future employer who won't be too keen to take on a bond breaker - word gets round.
Have you considered going and talking to your management? You may be surprised at how reasonable they can be if you present your circumstances honestly, I suggest you give that a try first.
Best of luck.
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Leave them & don't pay a penny of the bond back. Look at the industry today & show me one employer who acts with integrity & loyalty? It's a sad state of affairs but the bond is a total joke anyway: how was your company going to operate if it didn't provide people like you with the training to operate their aircraft in the first place?
Think of yourself & your financial state & go for it.
Think of yourself & your financial state & go for it.
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Leave and pay the bond off. That is what you agreed to. You are only breaking the agreement if you leave and don't pay.
As for 'looking after number one', absolutely! BUT, remember that aviation is a very small industry and if you actually break your bond (i.e. leaving without paying it) you will not really be looking after your own best interests, especially if word reaches any prospective future employer.
PP
As for 'looking after number one', absolutely! BUT, remember that aviation is a very small industry and if you actually break your bond (i.e. leaving without paying it) you will not really be looking after your own best interests, especially if word reaches any prospective future employer.
PP
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Many moons ago, i was in a company where a first officer left and refused to pay off his bond. He was about half way through his 747 course with his new employer when the training manager came to see him. The training manager asked him if there was any truth in the claim he had refused to pay off his previous bond. he confirmed that this was true. he was told to pick up his belongings and leave. BE VERY CAREFUL!
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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I know of a First Officer in BA, (probably now a captain), who broke a bond with SIA and he was on his B747-400 course too, like the guy in BALLSOUT's post. BA took a kinder view, they said that he had to pay the bond off as BA could not take the risk of having a crew member detained in Singapore and disrupting the schedule, otherwise he would have to come off the course and return to short-haul. If I remember correctly it was around six years after he 'skipped' from SIA but they still got him and he paid.
Asecretidentity It is exactly because of the crass attitude displayed here by Modderator and X-Centric that you have been bonded in the first place. The likes of these two are not welcome in aviation, they stuff it up for everyone else, somehow they slipped through the net.
Asecretidentity It is exactly because of the crass attitude displayed here by Modderator and X-Centric that you have been bonded in the first place. The likes of these two are not welcome in aviation, they stuff it up for everyone else, somehow they slipped through the net.
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With the greatest of respect parabellum, honour is a two way street. My employer went bust some 18 months ago owing me a not inconsiderable amount of money. In fact they closed their doors the day prior to pay day, hardly a coincidence methinks! Myself and 52 other pilots, along with all the other poor unfortunates working for this IRISH registered airline, were left with nothing and have still to be paid.
Believe me, your employer will drop you in the same way he would drop last nights curry, with just a small bowel movement. You are merely an expensive commodity to them, they abuse you while you work for them and continue to do so after they have dropped you. You owe them nothing!
Believe me, your employer will drop you in the same way he would drop last nights curry, with just a small bowel movement. You are merely an expensive commodity to them, they abuse you while you work for them and continue to do so after they have dropped you. You owe them nothing!
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Refuse BONDage
OK, while I understand that there is the legal aspect to the bond because one has signed it, but I think that the bond system should be abolished. It is just yet another way of holding pilots in a Company that may or may not be (probably not) decent.
Our Profession has been degraded over the last 20 years or so because we accept this treatment. How about if things were the other way around ie we had the whip handle? Generally we are nice to the management because we are too stupid to realise they will do us down on a whim!
So lets say you are bonded for £20,000 over 3 years for instance. The Company obviously think that is the cost of the rating - fair comment. So if a pilot joins a Company already rated then they, the Company, should pay the pilot £20,000 over 3 years. The pilot has earned his rating at another Company, with the associated experience (time on type). Fair? Yes, and if enforced would stop the manipulative pen pushers in thier tracks.
A couple of friends of mine have joined other lines of business, bus driver, train driver. They are not bonded, yet we the 'professionals' are.
Our Profession has been degraded over the last 20 years or so because we accept this treatment. How about if things were the other way around ie we had the whip handle? Generally we are nice to the management because we are too stupid to realise they will do us down on a whim!
So lets say you are bonded for £20,000 over 3 years for instance. The Company obviously think that is the cost of the rating - fair comment. So if a pilot joins a Company already rated then they, the Company, should pay the pilot £20,000 over 3 years. The pilot has earned his rating at another Company, with the associated experience (time on type). Fair? Yes, and if enforced would stop the manipulative pen pushers in thier tracks.
A couple of friends of mine have joined other lines of business, bus driver, train driver. They are not bonded, yet we the 'professionals' are.
I Have Control
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Pay up
No issue. I left an employer to fly biggish shinyish jets, failed the base check at the end of training, and needed a job fast. My previous employer, to whom I paid back the training balance AS AGREED, offered me my old job back, on either a temp or permanent basis.
In the end I joined another jet airline, completed the base check, and have enjoyed a good career since. But no way would that have happened had I scarpered from my first employer without paying my dues.
Anyone who suggests otherwise has no integrity. And the issue of airlines' integrity is irrelevant. I am ashamed to hear fellow professionals espouse such a dishonest course of action.
In the end I joined another jet airline, completed the base check, and have enjoyed a good career since. But no way would that have happened had I scarpered from my first employer without paying my dues.
Anyone who suggests otherwise has no integrity. And the issue of airlines' integrity is irrelevant. I am ashamed to hear fellow professionals espouse such a dishonest course of action.
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Indeed, this is a very small industry.
look out for yourself, without stepping on others to get there.
Talk to your employer, pay the bond, get on with your life
Integrity intact
look out for yourself, without stepping on others to get there.
Talk to your employer, pay the bond, get on with your life
Integrity intact
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As this thread has moved on a bit, heres my 10p's worth
IMHO, bonds are a good thing, far better in fact than the exploitative SSTR practice. However, there are some employers who will attempt to bond you on a non-reducing basis
i.e. you will be liable for the entire cost that the airline stipulates if you leave before the bond period expires.
IMHO this is unacceptable, a bond is a two-way agreement, it should reduce on the basis of length of service, and should recognize that as you become more experienced on type, you become more productive.
Another favourite bean-counter tactic is to inflate the size of the bond far beyond its actual cost, thats totally unacceptable.
Be wary, and be wise
IMHO, bonds are a good thing, far better in fact than the exploitative SSTR practice. However, there are some employers who will attempt to bond you on a non-reducing basis
i.e. you will be liable for the entire cost that the airline stipulates if you leave before the bond period expires.
IMHO this is unacceptable, a bond is a two-way agreement, it should reduce on the basis of length of service, and should recognize that as you become more experienced on type, you become more productive.
Another favourite bean-counter tactic is to inflate the size of the bond far beyond its actual cost, thats totally unacceptable.
Be wary, and be wise
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"Asecretidentity It is exactly because of the crass attitude displayed here by Modderator and X-Centric that you have been bonded in the first place. The likes of these two are not welcome in aviation, they stuff it up for everyone else, somehow they slipped through the net."
Parabellum, you really are a total muppet aren't you? So we're not welcome in aviation because we don't feel that it's right to try to screw your much needed workforce for money when they leave you because you offered them crap salaries & conditions, eh? A very good friend of mine has worked for the same poxy outfit for the past eight years. He's an exceptional operator & an all round 'good egg' so why does he endure less than industry standard conditions? Because he was bonded for his first tp rating with them, bonded for his first jet rating, bonded for his second jet rating & now they're bloody well trying to bond him for a command course!!!
Tell me; if they were a good outfit to work for in the first place why would they need to continually bond a pilot to this degree? Bonds are a way of screwing the pilot workforce into the ground. When you join BA you won't be asked to sign a bond. Why not?
NoJoke, I couldn't agree more, it's halfassed people like parabellum who shouldn't be in this industry with their, "everything is bloody wonderful in aviation," attitude. Look how they've destroyed it over the past decade. 
Parabellum, you really are a total muppet aren't you? So we're not welcome in aviation because we don't feel that it's right to try to screw your much needed workforce for money when they leave you because you offered them crap salaries & conditions, eh? A very good friend of mine has worked for the same poxy outfit for the past eight years. He's an exceptional operator & an all round 'good egg' so why does he endure less than industry standard conditions? Because he was bonded for his first tp rating with them, bonded for his first jet rating, bonded for his second jet rating & now they're bloody well trying to bond him for a command course!!!
Tell me; if they were a good outfit to work for in the first place why would they need to continually bond a pilot to this degree? Bonds are a way of screwing the pilot workforce into the ground. When you join BA you won't be asked to sign a bond. Why not?
OK, while I understand that there is the legal aspect to the bond because one has signed it, but I think that the bond system should be abolished. It is just yet another way of holding pilots in a Company that may or may not be (probably not) decent.
Our Profession has been degraded over the last 20 years or so because we accept this treatment. How about if things were the other way around ie we had the whip handle? Generally we are nice to the management because we are too stupid to realise they will do us down on a whim!
Our Profession has been degraded over the last 20 years or so because we accept this treatment. How about if things were the other way around ie we had the whip handle? Generally we are nice to the management because we are too stupid to realise they will do us down on a whim!