AAC Flying Pay change
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AAC Flying Pay change
Anyone else seen the letter from MCM that rectifies the AAC Flying pay changes effective March 1st. If your not on Enhanced by the end of february this year you might find the expected date has changed by a year or two and in some cases three.
Each person that this effects is named on the document along with the new date that you will be entitled so if you havent yet seen it I would recommend you ask at RHQ.
Each person that this effects is named on the document along with the new date that you will be entitled so if you havent yet seen it I would recommend you ask at RHQ.
[QUOTE][Each person that this effects is named on the document along with the new date that you will be entitled so if you havent yet seen it I would recommend you ask at RHQ./QUOTE]
Then you can sign off at the same time..........
Then you can sign off at the same time..........
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It's not just for enhanced rate either. A fair few people on Lower, Middle and Top rates are affected too. I asked this question months ago with very little response. Having been on my current rate for two and a half years, according to the list I won't be seeing the next rate until 2012, when the system says I'll have "come into line".
I was never meant to be a rich man, but I'm sure someone waits for me to get to the six yard box before moving the goal posts! Anyway, back to living the dream.
Have a nice day out there PPruners,
RotP
I was never meant to be a rich man, but I'm sure someone waits for me to get to the six yard box before moving the goal posts! Anyway, back to living the dream.
Have a nice day out there PPruners,
RotP
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Mmmm, I get the feeling not many people have hit the true nail on the head with this one yet...
Friday afternoon for us was awash with calculators spinning out estimamted loss of earnings; £18,000+ for me and this was far from the worst figure!!!
At a time when the Corps is finding it hard to hold onto us why does it keep kicking us in the nuts?!!!
Hopefully the idiot that made this decision - etiquette prevents me from naming and shaming - will get his MBE out of it and be proud as punch, they can even promote him and put him in charge of the retention crisis they are going to have in a few years time...
Does DAAvn know of this yet?
Friday afternoon for us was awash with calculators spinning out estimamted loss of earnings; £18,000+ for me and this was far from the worst figure!!!
At a time when the Corps is finding it hard to hold onto us why does it keep kicking us in the nuts?!!!
Hopefully the idiot that made this decision - etiquette prevents me from naming and shaming - will get his MBE out of it and be proud as punch, they can even promote him and put him in charge of the retention crisis they are going to have in a few years time...
Does DAAvn know of this yet?
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Flying Pay -Action required
This change to the rules is nothing more than a transparent attempt to cut costs and get someone an MBE.
Personally, I think that after 8 years flying I'm worth the payrise. If not then they can happly replace me with a new pilot and sent him to Herric.
I have the good fortune to have the orginal letter from 2002 that states P2 or P1 will receive TOP rate after 8 years from wings. This is what I signed up for, not these wishy washy rules now.
I have sent a letter to my MP and David Cameron asking for a Parlimentary question on this matter. BAFF (British Armed Forces Fedration) will also be informed shortly. I am also considering a petition on this site, if the response is postive.
Cheers.
Personally, I think that after 8 years flying I'm worth the payrise. If not then they can happly replace me with a new pilot and sent him to Herric.
I have the good fortune to have the orginal letter from 2002 that states P2 or P1 will receive TOP rate after 8 years from wings. This is what I signed up for, not these wishy washy rules now.
I have sent a letter to my MP and David Cameron asking for a Parlimentary question on this matter. BAFF (British Armed Forces Fedration) will also be informed shortly. I am also considering a petition on this site, if the response is postive.
Cheers.
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At a time when the Corps is finding it hard to hold onto us why does it keep kicking us in the nuts?!!!
That's just it, retention is relatively good in the Corps - certainly compared to the other services - and therefore these type of decisions come with little risk. It sticks in the throat for those that it effects, but the facts are that pilot manning remains strong. In fact, I think I'm right in saying that the only shortage is in DE Captains.
We lost out on the FRI for the same reason.
That's just it, retention is relatively good in the Corps - certainly compared to the other services - and therefore these type of decisions come with little risk. It sticks in the throat for those that it effects, but the facts are that pilot manning remains strong. In fact, I think I'm right in saying that the only shortage is in DE Captains.
We lost out on the FRI for the same reason.
That's just it, retention is relatively good in the Corps - certainly compared to the other services - and therefore these type of decisions come with little risk. It sticks in the throat for those that it effects, but the facts are that pilot manning remains strong. In fact, I think I'm right in saying that the only shortage is in DE Captains.
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LOSTinSPICE,
I think we could all do with a copy of that letter. When I enquired about this topic late last year I was told it was being "fired up" to DAAvn. I think he knows about it. If there's no need to pay FRI, why do we need progressive flying pay (Interesting that RAF and FAA chappies qualify for flying pay before they've even qualified on an operational type in many cases)? Don't we do it for the love of the job and because we're soldiers first? Did I just see Elvis?
Why don't the same rules apply across all three services? Their aircraft are no more complicated or any less demanding than ours (NOT looking to start a pi$$!ng contest either). And there's no less "Captaincy" taught on the "Joint" Army Pilots Course so that argument doesn't wash either.
My 2p is spent.
I think we could all do with a copy of that letter. When I enquired about this topic late last year I was told it was being "fired up" to DAAvn. I think he knows about it. If there's no need to pay FRI, why do we need progressive flying pay (Interesting that RAF and FAA chappies qualify for flying pay before they've even qualified on an operational type in many cases)? Don't we do it for the love of the job and because we're soldiers first? Did I just see Elvis?
Why don't the same rules apply across all three services? Their aircraft are no more complicated or any less demanding than ours (NOT looking to start a pi$$!ng contest either). And there's no less "Captaincy" taught on the "Joint" Army Pilots Course so that argument doesn't wash either.
My 2p is spent.
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Merlin is absolutely right. As far as numbers are concerned, the Corps is not short of pilots and does not have a retention problem.
Why do you think that in the AFPR, that both the FAA and RAF were awarded a further FRI, but the Army wasn't?
Why do you think that in the AFPR, that both the FAA and RAF were awarded a further FRI, but the Army wasn't?
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Chicken Leg
I was informed that the quote of us being overmanned is incorrect and this was briefed very early this year and perhaps too late for AFPRB to action. I could be wrong but I hear the figure is a complete reverse of the numbers we are supposedly over strength.
I also believe this has been the case for the last few years and that includes last year when FRI was cut, but once again I could be wrong. As with all these things truth will invariably leak out so until then I presume we have to settle with hard facts such as written in the AFPRB, but please take into account that they (The AFPRB) can only go on what DAAvn tell them.
I was informed that the quote of us being overmanned is incorrect and this was briefed very early this year and perhaps too late for AFPRB to action. I could be wrong but I hear the figure is a complete reverse of the numbers we are supposedly over strength.
I also believe this has been the case for the last few years and that includes last year when FRI was cut, but once again I could be wrong. As with all these things truth will invariably leak out so until then I presume we have to settle with hard facts such as written in the AFPRB, but please take into account that they (The AFPRB) can only go on what DAAvn tell them.
Well recently in parlimentary written questions, the subject of current manning within the AAC was brougyht up and the figures were as follows:
First figure is planned strength and second figure actual strength.
1 Regt AAC: 60 (54)
3 Regt AAC: 85 (57)
4 Regt AAC: 85 (63)
5 Regt AAC: 93 (64)
9 Regt AAC: 85 (69)
This doesn't take into account people on conversion courses, although it doesn't take the brains of the holy one to work out that is at max 20..
So on those figures (as at Feb 07) I make that 101 aircrew not accounted for..
and even with the withdrawal of Gazelle, which I believe has been extended again...
But I guess what is more bitter to swallow is that the RAF/RN FRI was based upon the lure of civvi flying. So let me get this straight...Army and RM pilots aren't able to find employment outside the services?? Me thinks not.
Add to this the latest slap in the face of recalculating rates of pay, so that there is no seniority in length of flying service...well all I can say is someone has taken a hoofing big gun and aimed it well and truly at their feet!!
First figure is planned strength and second figure actual strength.
1 Regt AAC: 60 (54)
3 Regt AAC: 85 (57)
4 Regt AAC: 85 (63)
5 Regt AAC: 93 (64)
9 Regt AAC: 85 (69)
This doesn't take into account people on conversion courses, although it doesn't take the brains of the holy one to work out that is at max 20..
So on those figures (as at Feb 07) I make that 101 aircrew not accounted for..
and even with the withdrawal of Gazelle, which I believe has been extended again...
But I guess what is more bitter to swallow is that the RAF/RN FRI was based upon the lure of civvi flying. So let me get this straight...Army and RM pilots aren't able to find employment outside the services?? Me thinks not.
Add to this the latest slap in the face of recalculating rates of pay, so that there is no seniority in length of flying service...well all I can say is someone has taken a hoofing big gun and aimed it well and truly at their feet!!
This was taken from the Pay Rise thread.......
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Simple. Vote with your feet.
The civvy market is pretty much crying out for experience.
As usual, the Corps is planning for the present.
Flying pay is a retention incentive and to move the goal posts must mean that there is no need to retain pilots. Thats all well and good today but in two, four or six years? Are they going to re adjust it again?
I also hear there are moves afoot to increase the time bar on completion of the pilots course to six years and also do away with first tour flying pay.
Money isn't the driving force to go flying but it would be nice to know that we are at least on the same terms with the RAF and RN. Especially as we do the same flying course!
Nice way to go on trying to attract people to stay around Army Avn. Last one out, turn the lights off.
Overmanned?? Where?? Not on this planet.
The civvy market is pretty much crying out for experience.
As usual, the Corps is planning for the present.
Flying pay is a retention incentive and to move the goal posts must mean that there is no need to retain pilots. Thats all well and good today but in two, four or six years? Are they going to re adjust it again?
I also hear there are moves afoot to increase the time bar on completion of the pilots course to six years and also do away with first tour flying pay.
Money isn't the driving force to go flying but it would be nice to know that we are at least on the same terms with the RAF and RN. Especially as we do the same flying course!
Nice way to go on trying to attract people to stay around Army Avn. Last one out, turn the lights off.
Overmanned?? Where?? Not on this planet.
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So, more commitment with less renumeration and a ****ty contract to boot?
Yep, that sounds like a great way to retain and nurture aircrew.
Some will see this as a method of making people go AH now. How much was the FRI bandied around for them?
Yep, that sounds like a great way to retain and nurture aircrew.
Some will see this as a method of making people go AH now. How much was the FRI bandied around for them?
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It's been a while since I cast an eye over PPRUNE threads, but what a surprise (not) to see that DAAvn has done it again. How can one department make so many out of touch and uncalculated (stupid) decisions and still be taken seriously.
What part of what the **ck are you doing to the AAC and its moral dont you understand?
HQ DAAvn is supposed to support and protect the AAC and ensure that it remains in line with defence policy and capability. Joint rules and treatment would at least be a start, now it would appear that the AAC goes from crisis to crisis, without management or direction.
Oh well, at least the summers on its way, nearly time for the big push!
PP
What part of what the **ck are you doing to the AAC and its moral dont you understand?
HQ DAAvn is supposed to support and protect the AAC and ensure that it remains in line with defence policy and capability. Joint rules and treatment would at least be a start, now it would appear that the AAC goes from crisis to crisis, without management or direction.
Oh well, at least the summers on its way, nearly time for the big push!
PP
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Typical,
we spend the first 50 years of our existance justifying ourselves to the rest of the Army, Navy and Air Force and when we become a credible force in our own right, showing exactly what we're capable of, and of our future potential, we accept second best again.
I am proud to serve in the Army Air Corps. I am True Blue. How many of those "flying a desk" at DAAvn, on top and enhanced rates of flying pay can say the same. I don't fly Army because it pays well. But by the same token, I don't work for free. A fair and equal rate (for EVERYONE) doesn't sound unreasonable does it?
we spend the first 50 years of our existance justifying ourselves to the rest of the Army, Navy and Air Force and when we become a credible force in our own right, showing exactly what we're capable of, and of our future potential, we accept second best again.
I am proud to serve in the Army Air Corps. I am True Blue. How many of those "flying a desk" at DAAvn, on top and enhanced rates of flying pay can say the same. I don't fly Army because it pays well. But by the same token, I don't work for free. A fair and equal rate (for EVERYONE) doesn't sound unreasonable does it?
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On close inspection of the list you might find a number of people whom have left long ago and even one whom was sadly KIA almost a year ago.
What a smack in the face that is, I am appallled!
What a smack in the face that is, I am appallled!
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I have always stood on the sidelines of PPrune and never posted my opinions for various reasons HOWEVER this issue is one that I just cannot stand by and watch. It is totally out of order.
I'm surprised that this forum is not inundated from outraged personnel, but then I realise that the chain of command can be very, very long especially for bad news.
As far as I am concerned, this directive is:
1. Totally out of step with the other 2 services.
2. An absurd interpretation of the rules.
3. Inspires no loyalty, and if anything will drive our pilots to the rickety gate to civvy street where there are jobs aplenty at the moment. It's suicidal.
I implore those in the "ivory tower" or " mouldy prefab" to reassess this policy document, examine and question this latest interpretation of the rules, and think sensibly of how it's delivery is perceived by those on the receiving end. Having an officer named on the hitlist who was killed nearly a year ago is totally out of order from a "just" G1 organisation.
This is the same organisation that has ADG's on operations who are not being paid for being ADG's.
It's embarrassing - please get a grip.
IIP
I'm surprised that this forum is not inundated from outraged personnel, but then I realise that the chain of command can be very, very long especially for bad news.
As far as I am concerned, this directive is:
1. Totally out of step with the other 2 services.
2. An absurd interpretation of the rules.
3. Inspires no loyalty, and if anything will drive our pilots to the rickety gate to civvy street where there are jobs aplenty at the moment. It's suicidal.
I implore those in the "ivory tower" or " mouldy prefab" to reassess this policy document, examine and question this latest interpretation of the rules, and think sensibly of how it's delivery is perceived by those on the receiving end. Having an officer named on the hitlist who was killed nearly a year ago is totally out of order from a "just" G1 organisation.
This is the same organisation that has ADG's on operations who are not being paid for being ADG's.
It's embarrassing - please get a grip.
IIP
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Hmmm.
Sounds like you chaps would benefit from having a Joint HQ!
These single service issues need to be addressed and brought into line with best practice - which in this case, does not appear to be as demonstrated by the Army!
By the way, I see lots of former Army balmy types are starting their Chinook conversion - plenty more places up for grabs I believe.
Pip, pip!
Sounds like you chaps would benefit from having a Joint HQ!
These single service issues need to be addressed and brought into line with best practice - which in this case, does not appear to be as demonstrated by the Army!
By the way, I see lots of former Army balmy types are starting their Chinook conversion - plenty more places up for grabs I believe.
Pip, pip!