pilottom

Hi all,

I have spent many hours looking at ATPL pilot training! I came up with a, potentially, very interesting training school, UK flight training (Rainbow Air) in Long Beach, California. They offer a JAA PTIP course, which takes about 3 years and costs $83,000 (about £50,000), it will apparently give graduates a Full ATPL (not frozen). Training is initially done in the US then after a FAA ATPL had been gained you come back to the UK to do the JAA ATPL groundwork, then on to Italy for the flight hours for a full JAA ATPL.

I was just wondering if anyone has had any experiences with the company and/or the course? Also, does anyone have any advice for me as to what I should do to find out how good/bad the course is and whether it is worth me paying for it?

Cheers,
Tom

GrahamK123

This does look very interesting.....

scroggs

This FTO has come up a few times in the last year or so. Do a search on UKFT and have a look for yourself.

I cannot find reference to the exact course you mention on UKFT's website; they do refer to JAA 'compliant' courses however, which require conversion to JAA licences on your return. It would appear from your post that this is taken care of. I would be very interested to hear from anyone that has completed this course.

The best thing you can do is visit the school and also talk to the CAA.

Edit: in apparent contradiction to the claim on the front page of UKFT's website to be CAA/JAA 'recognised', UKFT do not appear in the list of CAA-approved schools. You will need to clarify this before you commit to anything with UKFT.

Scroggs

Julian

The PPL training offered by UKFT is for an FAA PPL, then then apparently giv eyou the JAA airlaw and radio exams and a JAA PPL flight test so you go home with both licences.

However if you look at the quals you exit the course with it seems to elude to what Scroggs is saying. Taken from the website

The following FAA certificates and ratings: PPL-A; IR-A; CPL-SE/ME; CFI; CFII; MEI; 135 LOA (at 1200 hrs); ATPL.

The following JAA certificates and ratings: PPL-A; Cessna Citation Rating; ATPL

So it would appear you come away with a PPL(A) and the ATPL exams? The majority of the training is based around the FAA systems, it does not make any mention of the JAA CPL, ME or IR. Beyond that there is of course MCC which is not mentioned either. I would write to them and get it confirmed that these are also included in the training.

Also, what would be the schedule of payments to the school? Been said a million times, so here is the million-and-one, dont part with your money all at once!!!!!

Sounds very interesting but get the course confirmed in writing first.

Julian.

welliewanger

On the surface it sounds good to me, but you need to add the cost of living for 36 months. This will probably add £20k (at a guess). After that, I'm not sure how the airlines view these candidates who effectively "bought" their first job.

DANNY M

the mentioned course is offerd by rainbow air...


http://www.rainbowair.com/academy_european_ptip.htm


It looks good but i am concearned that the 'all inclusive' tag is not quite what it seems???


Anyone have any thoughts on the programme?

Danny

hixton

Simply stay away from those sharks. It wont be long before they go under as the owner doesnt give a hoot about the flying school side of business, all he cares about is the air charter side.
I heard that the FAA were in there a while ago grounding all their planes because they were all dangerous.
UKFT still owes me money after 3 years, dont pay into the black hole.

If you want serious training go next door to Angel City Flyers. Its run by an Irish guy so you get to train with JAA in mind as well.
I done my multi cpl/ir with no complaints whatsoever, and their aircraft are all brand new.

Julian

ACF are a very good training organsation and would definitely reccommend them. One thing to correct is that they do not own any aircraft, last time I was there they used aircraft from a variety of sources including Long Beach Flying Club, California Flight Centre and Rainbow Air.

Book ahead with them as they have a good reputation and hence get very busy.

Muddy Boots

I went to visit UKFT just the other day and was very depressed by them.

Firstly they are not JAA compliant, there is no such thing. An FTO is either approved by the CAA (or whoever your local JAA authority is) or not. There is no halfway house.

Secondly, they were just dodgy, no other way to describe it. Felt like checking into a cheap motel with the receptionist watching TV at the same time.

I was very disapointed and had hoped to complete my JAA PPL with them. Fortunately there was another post on UKFT where Scrogs had a link to a list of approved JAA schools including the ones outside of the JAA area.

Muddy Boots!

ChocksAwayUK

Yup, I looked into doing my Night Qulaification with them a couple of years ago. The guy who runs it (can't remember his name) sent me a copy of his certificate of CAA approval and gave me the details of someone at the CAA I could confirm with. Duly did so and was told that they are not CAA approved (cert. was out of date or something).

buzzc152

There are loads of post re UKFT going back many years. Have a good search around and you'll find all the info you need. The bottom line is, don't go near these guys. There are many good quality and REPUTABLE schools in the US you could look at instead.

I went out about 5 years ago for some training with UKF and suffice to say I would never EVER go back.

willp_03

Got back from UKFT in Long Beach about 3 weeks ago .. what a waste of time!

Paid (stupidly ) up front for some hour building .. 50 hours in a 152 .. i was guaranteed a plane for the 14 days but decided since I'd just finished a whole lot of ATPL exams that I'd take my time and stay out there for 4 weeks and make the flying enjoyable rather than cramming it in the 2 weeks.

To cut a long story short .. I got on my flight back to the UK with 19 out of the 50 hours and no refund in my pocket.

For the first few days while I was getting checked out by the instructor there seemed to be always availability of a plane .. or if there wasnt he would make it so there was .. this tactic by the instructors was to play a great part of why I didnt come home with my hours.

Before I arrived in UKFT i hadnt flown for over a year and was very rusty so I knew extra help would be needed. The quality of the 5hr check out was appalling .. every time I came to land my instructor seemed to be overriding my control .. suffice to say that when he signed me off I dont think I had actually landed the plane once by myself (which I realised when I tried to land the a/c myself for the first time after I had been signed off). After he signed me off I ended up spending about 4 hours in the circuit practising my landings .. he had never practised pattern work with me which in a very busy place like Long Beach can be very difficult especially for someone as unexperienced as me.

Then the real fun began when I tried to start booking the plane for cross- country trips ..

The 2nd week I was at UKFT ..there was one 152 available .. out of 5/6 because all the others were in maintenance. and that 152 was between myself and many others who were trying to do their PPL's .. needless to say I didnt get the plane once in a 7 day period!

The rest of the time I was there it was cancellation after cancellation of all my bookings by instructors / maintenance staff.

The FAA had been in before I arrived apparently and grounded a whole lot of a/c .. goes to show the Rainbow Air / UKFT a/c are unsafe .. a guy even had an engine failure on his first solo while I was there!!

I approached the boss of UKFT in the 3rd week and he told me if the plane wasnt available I would get a refund as they hadn't upheld their side of the deal. He then conveniently went away on a trip and I booked up slots for my final 10 days so I could get the hours up in time .. In a 10 day period I managed approx. 10 hours because of my slots being cancelled.

After talking to different members of staff on site about a refund .. it became apparent that NOBODY knew who was responsible for my refund. Rainbow Air told me to talk to UKFT ..UKFT would say it was up to Rainbow Air and eventually I was told that the policy was NO refund.
I arranged my training through UKFT but everything was done through Rainbow Air .. I dont think the staff even understand how the whole business is operated.

I never signed anything that mentioned this no refund policy and by this time it was time to come back to the UK.

Trying to contact UKFT on my return has proven to be like climbing Everest. He wants nothing to do with me and will try any tactic to blag his way out of talking.

At the monent Im still trying to contact him while he sits with over $1500 of my money in his bank account!

My CPL/IR training has been delayed because of all this disruption and cost me more money than I ever dreamed of spending on hour building due to the fact that I now have to go elsewhere to actually get my hours!

PLEASE dont trust them .. they are thieves.

g10

Sorry to dredge this thread up again.

Was really considering this place to do my JAA training, now reading this I think i have got to look elsewhere. Anyone with strong feelings (Good or Bad) about this place, i would love to hear more from you. Please PM me. (Got family in the area and that was going to reduce my expenses significantly !!)

Any other suggestions from folk learning out there for places in sunny california to go from ab-initio to fATPL. Or am I now destined for florida/australia to do my training.

Thanks

g10

Wee Weasley Welshman

Over the years a great many Wannabes have considered flying training in the US or elsewhere where it can be done more cheaply. For a few it has worked and has saved some money. Rarely though does it save much under the current licensing system. A bit of hours building is as far as I would recommend taking it. And even then make sure its not just hours and hours drilling holes in the sky with your brain in neutral.

You basic training - your PPL - is but the first few rungs on a tall ladder. It is temptin to skimp on these simple rungs. That is always a mistake as the CPL training - though much more expensive and sophisticated sounding - is only really a PPL course to higher standards. A shoddy PPL course followed by some shoddy hours building is a TERRIBLE foundation for tacking the CPL/IR. Whereas PPL lessons cost less than £100hr your CPL or IR lessons can be north of £300hr.

I've suggested it many times but I would where possible complete a PPL, IMC, CPL and IR and Multi rating all with the same school at the same airfield. Going to a smaller school with a long reputation means you are a bigger customer to them and they can and will look after you. Insist on the same instructor if possible all the way through and you'll be getting a Commercial Instrument Rating Instructor doing your Effect Of Controls One and he'll likely be a very experienced instructor doing a first class job. Knowing that he is going to be trying to get you through the CPL and IR in 8 months time means from day one he can be throwing in the little extras int he early stages that will save time and money later on.

You'll be very very familiar with the local area, local ATC environment and local procedures. You'll be more friendly with the school and airfield staff because you will have been around a while. You can make a name for yourself as a smart personable young man and this may help you with those valuable early contacts inside the industry.

By comparison blatting off to some unknown school many time zones away, training under time pressure, coming back and converting to different aircraft with different instructors in a different area with different ATC and expecting to pass everything in minimum hours to realise a cash saving is really setting yourself up to fail.

I don't think its worth spening £70 - 80k on the top of the line training courses. I don't think its worth trying to scrimp and save the last £5 - £10k off the training either. There is a happy medium. Probably at an airfield not so far from where you are now.

Good luck,

WWW

Cabin doors 2 manual

For those that have been to UKFT recently, is the 'pay UKFT with unsigned travellers cheques scam' for tax evasion still working? I was there many years ago, my instructor was being paid with my unsigned travellers cheques right in front of me. I wonder if the IRS know about this? Anyones log book record of training would confirm for them and hopefully shut them down before someone dies.

My trip there ended with legal threats both parties each way, UK CAA involved over non air worthy aircraft (fault reports going 'missing' to avoid repair costs) and the usual rip offs and engine failures in flight you would expect from this load of crooks.

Avoid this place like the plague, ironically if they spent more time providing a proper flight training package they wouldn't have to rip people off to make ends meet.

Muddy Boots

I went to UKFT to try and complete my JAA PPL as I had to come back to LA for work and was bitterly disapointed, read above post.

Link and reference deleted - Scroggs

There is a lot to be said the comments made above by the Welshman in maintaining consistency in your training. I've had to change schools a couple of times during the course of my training and everytime it puts you a couple of steps back as nobody will ever just let you fly solo because you say you've done it elsewhere, they will want to check for themselves that you can do what you say you can.

I also don't believe that it's that much cheaper in the USA than the UK when you factor in food, accomodation, transatlantic flights and car hire when you probably have all that at home and can est at your Mum's. The only plus is the airports feel proper and busy with control towers and not pre-war grass strips like at Stapleford!

Muddy Boots

P.S. Don't go to UKFT!

ME163

Hi all,

i would like to have some informations about Rainbow Air Academy training
and your "First Officer Program" on Beech 99, Beech 1900, and Metroliner?

Thanks everyone for your replies and advice.

Best regards!

CAPT_72

Hello ME163. I looked into Rainbow Air about a year ago and I found that most people say it is not a good place. The Flight Instructor internship where you will be building the bulk of your hours is unpaid. I have also heard the maintenance and quiality of instruction is quite horible as well.
Do a search on www.jetcareers.com and you will find more info.

Cheers!

davey147

This looks like a very good deal, I cant find any reviews of this.

I dont know what the purpose of the Citation type rating is though.

Daniel Asplund

Hi there!

I’m a Swedish citizen, 23years old, who have been thinking of going to the states to get my pilot license, and the more I look I realise that there’s a BIG market, and a lot of schools overseas. Anyone with any good suggestion of good schools? I was planning for the JAA PTIP with 1500h and a unfrozen ATPL at UKFT in Long Beach. But after reading on this site my mind is starting to change. Anyone out there who can give me any suggestion what school to choose instead? I will have about 88000EUR to spend on my education and of course want as many hours as possible. But of course I also what the education to be good, not only a lot of flight hours.


I’m aware of the problems with converting an FAA license to a JAA license.

Anyone who can help me with some suggestions for good schools?

//Daniel