Jackonicko

Under Project E US nuclear weapons were held by the US, at RAF airfields, for release to the RAF only with US authority.

Because this limited the ability of the RAF to disperse aircraft equipped with Project E weapons, they were used as an interim, pending the availability of UK weapons. They also monopolised the SSAs at Marham, Honington and Waddington, forcing the British weapons elsewhere to be stored at greater concentrations than was deemed safe, and not in the best locations to meet the 'Unilateral Strike Plan', according to Wynn. They were phased out from the Vulcan and Victor forces in March 1962, and from the Valiant force in January 1965.

Humphrey Wynn, in the HMSO book RAF Nuclear Deterrent Forces, says that the Project E continued in RAF Germany until 1969.

Other public, published sources, similarly based on officially released information (eg File Air 02 13789 openly available in the Public Records Office), state that the RAFG Canberras used US Mk 7 bombs (LABS) until 1966, and then Mk 43s (Laydown) until 1972 (eg when the Canberra bowed out, and crucially after Project E ended).

Moreover while the Brit bomb (WE177, already in use in Bomber Command) entered service in RAFG at Laarbruch in 1972, the US bombs (Mk 43s and later Mk 57s) were used by the RAFG Phantoms at Bruggen from 1972 to 1976, when they were replaced by single seat Jags (rhetorical q: How on earth....) carrying UK WE177s.

With all the disadvantages previously outlined, why did the US weapons continue past 1969? Not worth using UK weapons for the last two years of Canberra ops? Impossible/impractical/undesirable to use UK weapons on the F-4? Still not enough UK weapons?
How? Was Project E extended, renewed or revived, or replaced by some new arrangement?

And before anyone 'beadwindows' I haven't revealed anything that hasn't been officially and deliberately published (not just officially released, but published under Government auspices). I'm not asking about tactics, authentication and release procedures, parametrics or anything else, and I'm not asking about anything remotely embarrassing, like safety. The weapons I'm asking about ENDED in 1976 - 29 years ago, and the last WE177 practise loading took place (according to the 1999 RAF Yearbook) on 17 December 1996 - eight years ago! The RAF is thus no longer even a tactical nuclear force, and hasn't been for eight years.

When the MoD was tardy in answering detailed questions about accidents involving much newer nukes, the ombudsman found the MoD guilty of maladministration, dismissing its objections and ruling that disclosing the information would not endanger the security of the nation. Crucially, the ombudsman decided that national security could not be compromised, as the weapons concerned had been taken out of service.

She wrote : "It is therefore difficult to envisage the release of information about events that happened some time ago to weapons that no longer exist could cause harm if made more widely available."

BEagle

Jacko,

The system integration of Special Weapons with appropriate delivery platforms is a very, very long and expensive process which requires much trial and testing time, certainly not worth bothering about for a mere 2 year period. All sorts of EMC and other checks have to be carried out and dummy release flights conducted.

I have no idea whether the WE177 was considered for use by the Canberra force or by the F-4; if appropriate US weapons (and the humourless, robotic morons who used to look after the things) were available, that would be a much cheaper option. Whether any specific DGZ was vapourised by an American or by a British warhead would be rather a moot point, I feel.

The cost of anything associated with Special Weapons was enormous. For example, on the arming panel of the WE177 was a socket into which 'The Key' was inserted to enable it to function. This socket was normally protected by a dust cap. Rather than allow the aircrew to break their fingernails trying to remove the dustcap, there was a little widget available which was placed over the cap, a plunger was pressed which extended 3 little claws which gripped the cap and allowed it to be removed. Cost of this thing - a mere £128 at 1977 prices... And yet most people continued to use their fingernails!

Jackonicko

Thanks BEags! Great anecdote.

What a great souvenir one of those widgets would be, I want one!

Fence-sitter(?)

When wearing NBC inner gloves and gloves kid-leather on top, widget quite useful?

soddim

Whilst I agree wholeheartily with Jacko's sentiments on the release of previously classified information, none of us who signed the official secrets act is entitled to release that information without the necessary authorisation. Sounds like a cop-out but duty is still duty long after one ceases to be paid for it.

The Gorilla

I knew somebody would pull that one!!

Roghead

Despite what Soddim has said I would have no problem telling you all I remember from Weeze Intl days Jacko. That, however, is the problem.... couldn't remember it then and have no chance now. I'm the Official Secrets Man dream.
Beags, I do recall at least a couple of our US minders who were great company during QRA...even helped our route planning westwards, and were not too upset when we "borrowed" their personal weapons.

Climebear

My how times have changed from the 'I can neither conform nor deny' days - there is a WE177 in the RAF Museum at Hendon now - although I'm not convinced it has all its working parts!

Mind you there is a JSF in the Air and Space Museum in Dulles too!

A good headin

That will be the one the RAF buys then

Zoom

About all that I can remember and reveal without getting locked up is that the Mk 43 and Mk 57 were known to us as the B43 and B57.

I've probably posted this tale before, but I do remember the one and only time the 3 sqn bosses pulled 'Q' - simultaneously, as it happens, and on New Year's Eve to boot. Of course, there were never any callouts - real or practice - on New Year's Eve so it was an easy one. As the New Year approached they settled down to open a bottle of something or other for a toast, and at the stroke of midnight ...... the hooter went! Panic stations, of course, and shocked looks all round because this was obviously the Real Thing. Everyone shot out to the aircraft, putting their kit on properly for a change. The navs checked in with Wing Ops, who hadn't got a clue as to what was happening, and so they got into a panic as well. After a lot of detailed checking the crews were eventually stood down. They trooped back to the hut to be greeted by a grinning USAF custodial agent who said 'Happy New Year. It was a joke!'

I've forgotten what the 3 bosses said.

Or did.

Conan the Librarian

A few years ago, I was reading a book whilst waiting for an out patients appt in Sunny Ciren. The book didn't seem wildly accurate, but one thing that did stick out, was this.

It was claimed that in Germany on the Canberra Squadrons, that if any alert A/C engine were to start without proper and explicit authorisation, that our Colonial Cousins were expected to lob their rifles down the intake of the nearest engine.

I have never heard this before and wonder if anyone can either rubbish it or maybe confirm it? Sounds a bit fishy to me, I must be honest. Any fire would have been quite bad news I would have thought.

regards to all fellow sufferers :-)

Zoom

In my day, the US guard was required to shoot the pilot. One pilot did start an engine in the early 70s and shut it down in a real rush, encouraged by the guard screaming at him and waving his M-16. The guard was back Stateside within hours for NOT shooting the pilot.

Beeayeate

Recall that, suposedly, in the mid '60s a leccy at Wildenrath (14 Sqn) was shot in the leg by a Guardian for crossing into the No Lone Zone before the rest of the crew were fully up to the yellow line - probably just a tale though. But the Guardians did have authority to use "deadly force" on blokes who were inside the NLZ on their tod.

Don't recall any one of the Guardians mentioning they had orders/authority to shoot the pilot or disable an Avon if there was an unauthorised start, sounds fanciful really. However, was told they could fire at the aircraft tires (main wheels only) if the kite needed disabling in a hurry.

Jackonicko

Call that fanciful?

How about the departing USAF officer who was 'jokingly' told in the mess how they'd have cut his arm off if required to get the arming widget!

Zoom

Those were certainly the instructions by the time I got there, Beeayeate. You know how it is: fancy new aeroplane, fancy new procedures. But it didn't do to mess with them anyway because some of them were weird cookies. I remember watching one of them playing his M-16 like a guitar as I was going through my (fairly serious) procedures, heard of another who fired a rifle round through the roof of his sentry box, another who shot his fire extinguisher with his pistol and watched another doing karate drop kicks against the side of his sentry box. Yep, weird cookies these; wouldn't do to mess with them, no sirree!

814man

I can’t cast any light on the US way of operating but having been involved to some extent perhaps this view of the RAF methods may be of interest to some.
Vulcan force (Scampton and Waddo) late 70’s. RAFP guard is assigned to a weapon and travels with it from the SSA to the aircraft where he commences point guard. Only exercised of course but as I recall once aircraft captain has identified his crew and they enter the NLZ then no further authorisation was required to the guard before departure.
Move on to Bruggen early 80s. Jags in the Q are of course now located inside a HAS. RAFP guard sat in his little box outside has an identification card for the pilot, a sealed envelope with release code (3 numbers) written in it and a key for one of the 2 padlocks on the small entrance door in the HAS. On sounding of hooter and arrival of pilot the guard confirms identity then opens his padlock. Pilot has key for other lock and they all (inc groundcrew vouched for by pilot) enter HAS. No live releases from Q of course so at this point we switch to the very frequently rehearsed exercise scenarios. Pilot writes the code on a whiteboard and holds it up. Guard confirms that it matches with his 3 numbers and gives thumbs up. Main HAS doors opened and aircraft can depart.
One often overlooked element is that the Q and the squadron dispersals were surrounded by fences and during exercises the squadrons become sealed and have an internal security patrol. This patrol needs a radio call from the guard to confirm a valid release from HAS before opening the main gates across the taxiway leading to the runway.
On exercise there would be the occasional wrong code sent to test the system which would result in much scribbling, pointing and faffing (all done with S6 and full NBC kit of course) before getting sorted. Just for fun (it seemed to us) where 2 jags were in a HAS it would of course be the one behind that would be released first which involved lots of hassle for groundcrew, and is the only scenario where HAS doors would be opened to enable the front aircraft to be moved without necessarily having a valid release. It would still need the co-operation of the security team at the taxiway gates however to be able to get away without authorisation. To the best of my recollection the RAFP guards had no procedures that involved the measures described by Conan and Zoom above, although we had the advantage that the aircraft were either inside a HAS or within a fenced and controlled area.

Pontius Navigator

Beagle had it absolutely spot on, it was not worth the cost of installing British standard weapons controls in a stop-gap bomber that we bought as an interceptor.

Thanks also for the reminder about both the widget and the dust cap. I now recall legging it across the apron at Akrotery trying to catch the damn thing. Lose articles didn't come in to it, it was the matter of explaining why you'd lost it.

As far as removing it with finger nails - under NBC gloves and kid gloves - what NBC gloves?

The bomb was introduced in 1965 and we got the NBC gloves about 1972. Did they REALLY anticipate that we needed a wignet because we would be wearing NBC gloves? Remember we didn't know we needed hardened aircraft shelters until Jun 67.

Beeayeate

Zoom, pls check your PM's.