Ropey Pilot

I realise that this subject has been mentioned before, but all I can remember from briefly looking at the thread was lots of abuse hurled at the poor person who posted it.

Unfortunately I can't get the search function to find it to see if there were useful replies - so here goes...

I realise that the chances of walking up to the cockpit during a flight and asking to see inside are slightly lower than the chance of Tony B. Liar and G Dubbya both finding Osama Bin Laden sitting on a pile of WMD in downtown Bagdhad but...

I am pursuing a career in Civil aviation having 'retired' (at 30!) from Lizzie's train set and was so deprived as a child that we never went on holiday, hence my dad never got me up on the flight deck pre 9/11 - therefore I have never seen one (Unless you count MS FlightSim and quickly glancing past the cabin crew on exit)!

Is there any chance (heads down, flak jackets on ) of gaining a jump seat ride with anyone flying big iron with enough notice, voluntary vetting etc. etc. Or will they just remember me as a pain in the ar$e when my CV finally flies their way.

I know of people who did this without any problems a few years ago - it just seems that given the first piece of advice ever metered out to Wannabees on Prune is "have a trial lesson", surely wanting to see the final product before the job interview stage isn't asking too much as a follow up!

The only thing I can see against it is company policy automatically assuming I am a terrorist - but following that how much vetting is done further down the line to prove I'm not just a terrorist with an ATPL!

(And before it gets out of hand - I am not a terrorist, nor would I say, or even think, the word b*mb at any airport - before the secret service track me down ).

Just a genuine query as I would quite like to see what I'm getting myself into!

Man Flex

I doubt very much that you would be allowed to visit the flight deck of a British registered aircraft in flight by simply asking as a travelling passenger. I also suspect that writing to an airline saying how interested you are in aviation and how you would be willing to undergo any necessary security checks would quite frankly be a complete waste of time.

May I suggest that the next time you fly as a passenger, perhaps after arrival at the destination, wait behind until everyone else has left then casually saunter forward and ask to "have a quick look". This would be the best time and may allow you some minutes to chat to the crew about what the job entails.

Spearing Britney

Short answer, no.

Shortish answer, unless you have a licence and contacts no authority to ride the J/S will be granted.

Sorry, but my wife can't even watch me work (pheww!)!

Ropey Pilot

Man Flex,

Didn't think that pax/enthusiast would have much hope - but I'm definitely going for the hang around, ask nicely (while looking to see if crew are desperate to turn-around/get home) option.

Spearing Britney,

Unfortunately you are confirming what I had guessed.
Although I am a wannabee, I'm not just idly hours building over a few years - I've jumped ship and am completing a modular course 'full time'. About to start multi/CPL and was just hoping to see a really big aeroplane (my background is rotary) before I actually send my CV off to potential employers (to put a jump seat ride on the CV if nothing else ).

Also looking for advice on whether officially writing to companies (I'll have my CPL in my back pocket by the time it becomes an issue anyway - If I don't I'll have more pressing problems... ) would be:

a) A waste of time - no problem, I'm currently unemlpoyed anyway
b) Seen by potential employers as a good example of positive action and forward thinking by potential F/Os
c) Seen as annoying and a guarentee that a CV bearing the same name goes straight into 'File 13'.

I do realise that the chance of that working without it being 'sponsored' by a currently employed pilot is minimal, but just looking for opinions

PS. Just to be make my original post clearer to anyone who remembers pre- privatisation trains with the corridors down one side - "Lizzie's train set" was a reference to HM Forces, not British Rail!

Paracab

Ropey,

Sadly, in flight visits are a thing of the past, I was lucky enough to jumpseat pre 9/11, don't think I'll experience that again in a hurry (cheers EZY218!)

Your best bet is to loiter after landing and ask for a nose - I did this recently (yes, its sad, I don't care !!!) and I spent an interesting 10 minutes chatting wth the FO on a 732 discussing the aircraft and the flight, fair play to him really, he had the decency to 'talk shop' with me, a punter, when he could have just
******me off !!
Ah well, back to the 150 !!

witchdoctor

Although the answer is most likely to be 'no', there are still some crews on certain airlines who may (very small possibility) allow a flight deck visit in flight. I was lucky enough to be invited up post 9/11 to a 777 flightdeck on a hop across the pond as my friend (who was the captain's intended target as my mate's old man was a former colleague of the captain) was asleep. "Anybody else want to come and have a look?" "Me! Me! Me!" Great fun it was too until the chief purser came in and informed the boss that the garbage in first class were nervous about the visitors they had just seen.

More recently, that lanky lout Clarkson blagged a jumpseat on a scarebus for his recent programe about the jet engine, along with his camera crew.

Not that I would suggest joining the BBC is a good way of trying to beat the odds for a flightdeck visit, but it isn't beyond the realms of possibility.

No doubt I shall now be flamed vigorously as some kind of irresponsible idiot, but somehow I don't believe this post will lead to fligtdeck doors being flung open willy-nilly for visits. It's not my decision to do it or not.

AIRWAY

This is correct,

I have been quite lucky on the Portuguese airlines . When i went back home to Portugal last year i got 3 out of 3 flight deck visits now if me being a student pilot, or Portuguese affected the decision i dont know, i always try to book flights when i know that a friend either the captain or FO will be on that flight.

Nil further

I sympathise greatly with all those in your postion , i greatly appreciated a few trips on the J/S many moons ago in my wanabe days . What i can say to you is that for UK airlines , the government tells us what to do and the government at the moment and for the foreseeable future (decades) says that there is no possibility of flight deck access in flight to anyone who is not operating crew.

This includes off-duty colleagues employed by the airline.

There are exemptions in our flight ops manuals for certain special categories of person eg, engineers travelling to AOG aeroplanes . These are subject to the written approval of the Flight OPs Director.

Keep asking at the the door though on the ground , we are aleays pleased to encourage those who are back where we once were .

Good Luck

Ropey Pilot

Thanks for those replies - pretty much what I expected

Guess I'll have to buy Flight Sim 2002 Pro and get Mrs Ropey to bring me coffee in plastic cups till somebody finally lets me fly one of the real ones.

p.s. Can you imagine any other job where you have to pay Ģ40,000 for your own training with no guarentees and no-one will even let you see what you are going to do at the end of it!

Suppose while everyone is willing to do it (myself included) it won't change.

akerosid

You could always try some South American and European carriers; I've heard it's still possible on some continental European airlines, although obviously not on flights to the US or UK.

Some pockets of civilisation still exist! Keep trying; they're not going to arrest you (yet!) for just asking a question.

EFP058

I for one am just simply not trying anymore, because I know the answer will always be a "no" anyway. Itīs a pity really, and I suppose a good number of pilots donīt like it either.

What I am doing however, is asking a member of the Cabin Crew (during the flight) if I may have a quick chat with the flightdeck crew once we are at the gate. In most cases I am welcomed to stop by, at the same time however I am not disappointed if my request is declined. I understand that pilots are eager to get out of their seats after a longhaul flight or have rather tight turn-around times etc., hence I make it a point to stay just for a few minutes and I always make sure the crew knows how much I appreciate it.
I have met a great number of very interesting people that way, and itīs really too bad we (the interested public) are not allowed to have the jump seat anymore if the Captain and F/O are okay with it, but oh well.

ukhomerj

I can confirm that the chances of you getting a visit in flight are, well, ZERO.

As a PPL student, I have often written some questions for the pilot, and asked the cabin crew to hand it over. Often some techie questions mixed with some jokey ones too.
I awlys get a reply, but often not what I was looking for, and have had a few invtes to pop my head round the door once landed and parked. and i can say the crew I have chatted to had an interest in my limited flying as much as I have in theirs.

So to those pilots I have met this way, many thanks for your time.

bohun

G'day mate,

When I fly as a passenger during domestic sectors on Qantas aircraft (usually 763s), I ask the flight attendants if I can talk to the pilots after landing. They always ask and I've never been refused! I'd say that'd be your best bet & 99% it always works.
Good luck with ur training!

Regards, Bohun

GGCC

Too bad things are where they are now regarding aircraft security.
I recall a flight as a passenger on an Air Canada Vickers Viscount around the winter of 1969

It was to be a 2 hopper from Saint John, N.B, to Fredericton, N.B. then on 400 miles to Montreal, Que................

It was snowing heavily at departure from YSJ we made it the 50 miles to Fredericton and then the Captain asked everyone to deplane as the flight would not proceed to MTL because of the runways being snowed in and that other arrangements would be made for the passengers

I was the last to leave just as the Captain and 2nd officer appeared, i told them i was a private pilot and asked just what the chances were of continuing to MTL

The Pilot said he had a date that nite in MTL so we will be going there for sure and if you want to get to MTL "stick with us"

So believe it or not i spent the next 4 or so hours shootin the **** with these guys in operations and then the "all clear" came in from MTL...OK says the Captain to his flight crew lets go.
So we fire up and head to MTL..I'm the only paying passenger aboard.about 20 mins into the flight i get invited into the cockpit, the second vacates his seat and motions me into it, the Captain runs over the controls etc, then turns off the autopilot and says "you have control" Holy **** i actually flew that aircraft for about 5 mins..........not necessarily straight and level but i flew it.

We arrived in MTL safe and sound, never got the Lads names but i assume the Captain kept his date, i know i kept mine

Ah! the "Good Old Days"

rottenlungs

Just last sunday I managed to get a j/s ride in an Air NZ Saab 340. I had expressed my disappointment at being stuck in the row which has no windows and to my surprise the F/a asked me if I`d like to check out the view up the front instead. Stuck my head in the door, had a chat to the lads up the front about their flying and my whopping 25 hours in a 152 (!) and they were happy to let me stay up front for the approach into Wellington.

I won`t mention names or flight no`s but thanks to all 3 of you on Sunday night. There is still some sanity left in this post 911 world. It was a great view of the QEII in the harbour too.

Cheers

Lungs

piginsh1t

I have the unjustifiable feeling that the french would maybe have a more relaxed attitude to these rules. Anyone care to comment ?

I know that a scandinavian flight I was on last summer had the door open a lot during the trip,I didn't ask for a visit though so not sure what they would have said.
I feel sorry for the guys/girls at the front sat on there own for long haul must get lonely now.

vaninnam

It comes as a big surprize as to how many interested parties would like to see the cockpit but denied acces.In our airline it is up to the crew who would be allowed in the cockpit.
But then again in our region we don`t seem to be a threat.
Regards and good luck
vaninnam

mutt

While we are all operating under the same strict rules, it is my impression and experience that some non UK/USA airlines will still allow cockpit visitors.

Personally it makes sense, the USA has had a no-cockpit-access rule for the last 20 years, it failed to stop 911.......

Now each flight has between 100-400 active skymarshals, so hijackers with a stupid little knife havent got a chance.......


Mutt.

Nosewheel1st

Understand all the rules and the answers - BUT isn't it ludicrous!

Before 9/11 I was fortunate enough to spend many hours in the J/S (thanx to all those skippers on bmi/ba who let me in!) on the simple strength of my PPL and a curteous request - managing not to hijack a single aircraft in over 4 years!

I firmly believe that besides the sheer pleasure and change from boredom of sitting in the cabin this actually ENHANCED air safety - you learn something even when only watching and listening to the r/t - one day this may pay off in the hold at the LPL in IMC only 1000' away from a 737.

Why is it that I'm now trusted to fly close on 6 tonnes, packed with whatever cargo I fancy, aimed at anything I like and yet am not trusted to sit in a jump seat. I realise that most pilots would agree (I have asked a lot of them) but if you are reading this and you work for the legal dept of the CAA please explain why the PPL is not vetted and allowed onto flight decks in the interest of air safety!

PAXboy

You are asking the wrong people. What makes you think that the CAA are making the rules for civil aviation in the UK????